Missing credit


Advanced search

Message boards : SZTAKI Desktop Grid : Missing credit

AuthorMessage
Steven
Send message
Joined: Apr 18 06
Posts: 6
Credit: 84,609
RAC: 0
Message 2465 - Posted 20 Apr 2006 3:29:37 UTC

    Last modified: 20 Apr 2006 3:31:01 UTC

    I\'ve only recently added Sztaki to my list of BOINC apps and I\'ve only completed 4 runs, including two where credit has been granted because two other people have successfully finished their runs too.

    However, in one of those two cases, where the claimed credit was 2.93 by me and 4.05 / 6.58 by the other two people, they\'ve both been granted 4.02 and I haven\'t been granted anything despite my run showing as successful. (see http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=536690)

    On the other work unit that I\'ve finished and two other people have finished too, I\'ve been granted credit, but the person who claimed the least credit for that run (2.54 to my 2.60) has again been granted 0. (see http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=534683)

    Shouldn\'t all three of us have been granted credit in both cases, or am I missing something?

    Profile Ananas
    Send message
    Joined: Jul 12 05
    Posts: 222
    Credit: 665,833
    RAC: 0
    Message 2466 - Posted 20 Apr 2006 6:19:18 UTC

      Your result shows, that you must have restarted the work unit :


      Restarting from checkpoint, # of lines processed so far 55, # of output lines so far 55.
      Starting from line 56.


      This might have been intentional or because you have set \"Leave applications in memory while preempted? = NO\"

      SZTAKI work is currently not restartable, it is recommended to set \"Leave applications in memory while preempted? = YES\"

      Interrupted work units all had \"Validation state = invalid\" so far, which causes no credits to be granted

      Steven
      Send message
      Joined: Apr 18 06
      Posts: 6
      Credit: 84,609
      RAC: 0
      Message 2467 - Posted 20 Apr 2006 11:20:30 UTC - in response to Message 2466.

        Thanks for letting me know the reason, but the reason is very annoying. Why so annoying? Well ...

        - \"Leave applications in memory while preempted\" was indeed set to no, but I didn\'t at any point change it from yes to no - no was the default. If it\'s essential that this option is set to \'yes\', why is the default \'no\' and why aren\'t we told anything about this when we sign up to the project?

        - Even with this option set to \'yes\', what happens when the computer gets turned off at night, doesn\'t that cause the same problem? Am I only supposed to attach to this project if I never turn my computer off, and if so then again, why aren\'t we told this when we sign up?
        ____________

        Richard Maths 1
        Send message
        Joined: Aug 16 05
        Posts: 43
        Credit: 9,526
        RAC: 0
        Message 2468 - Posted 20 Apr 2006 16:19:40 UTC - in response to Message 2467.

          [quote]

          - \"Leave applications in memory while preempted\" was indeed set to no, but I didn\'t at any point change it from yes to no - no was the default. If it\'s essential that this option is set to \'yes\', why is the default \'no\' and why aren\'t we told anything about this when we sign up to the project?

          If I remember correctly, all the projects that I have attached to has the \"Leave applications in memory\" initially set to \"No\". This is probably a BOINC thing.

          So SZTAKI is not the problem for this issue.

          Richard
          ____________

          Steven
          Send message
          Joined: Apr 18 06
          Posts: 6
          Credit: 84,609
          RAC: 0
          Message 2469 - Posted 20 Apr 2006 16:37:40 UTC - in response to Message 2468.


            If I remember correctly, all the projects that I have attached to has the \"Leave applications in memory\" initially set to \"No\". This is probably a BOINC thing.

            So SZTAKI is not the problem for this issue.


            It may be true that it\'s a BOINC default, but if it\'s so important to SZTAKI that it is set to yes, why not tell us that somewhere very prominent before we start? Surely it\'s not that hard to do that?
            ____________

            sygopet
            Send message
            Joined: Feb 10 06
            Posts: 17
            Credit: 3,821
            RAC: 0
            Message 2472 - Posted 21 Apr 2006 10:08:57 UTC - in response to Message 2467.

              Last modified: 21 Apr 2006 10:09:34 UTC

              - Even with this option set to \'yes\', what happens when the computer gets turned off at night, doesn\'t that cause the same problem?

              Indeed it does and there seems to be little knowledge of why - nor effort put into overcoming a problem that has existed since the start of the project.
              I can only help SZTAKI by suspending all but a few of the units (enough for 1 day) each morning and preventing new work from downloading until the current batch is complete. This is not a fool-proof procedure:-[
              ____________

              Profile Ananas
              Send message
              Joined: Jul 12 05
              Posts: 222
              Credit: 665,833
              RAC: 0
              Message 2474 - Posted 21 Apr 2006 13:35:01 UTC

                I have not tried this but it might be an intermediate solution, until the project client gets fixed :

                In WinXP and Win2k there\'s an option to send the computer into \"Suspend mode\" instead of \"Power off\", when the button is pressed


                Desktop properties -> Screensaver -> Energysomething -> on the second tab there

                (mine is in German, not sure how it\'s all called in English)


                If you suspend the SZTAKI task and then suspend the computer, the result should survive.

                Of course it needs to be fixed on project level and it seems that the client does try to restart properly, but I guess some fopen/fseek parameter isn\'t set correct yet so it isn\'t too successful with the restart yet.

                thierry.l
                Send message
                Joined: Apr 13 06
                Posts: 3
                Credit: 16,612
                RAC: 0
                Message 2493 - Posted 26 Apr 2006 12:33:16 UTC - in response to Message 2468.



                  If I remember correctly, all the projects that I have attached to has the \"Leave applications in memory\" initially set to \"No\". This is probably a BOINC thing.

                  So SZTAKI is not the problem for this issue.



                  Of course it is a SZTAKI problem, Boinc is a multiproject application, if SZTAKI is not able to support the reschedule (for example : after downloading next SZTAKI work because current one is going to end), so it has to be removed from Boinc projects and moved to standalone application. Boinc users don\'t have to change their system or practice to support one special project.
                  As time used for this project (without any results), is not used for others like malaria, SZTAKI is now removed from my Boinc until next SZTAKI version enable to support reschedule.

                  Bye

                  Steven
                  Send message
                  Joined: Apr 18 06
                  Posts: 6
                  Credit: 84,609
                  RAC: 0
                  Message 2494 - Posted 26 Apr 2006 18:22:59 UTC - in response to Message 2493.


                    Of course it is a SZTAKI problem, Boinc is a multiproject application, if SZTAKI is not able to support the reschedule (for example : after downloading next SZTAKI work because current one is going to end), so it has to be removed from Boinc projects and moved to standalone application.


                    Yes, of course it is a SZTAKI problem and not a BOINC problem, that\'s what I meant in my last post. I\'m certainly not aware of any other BOINC projects giving rise to this problem.

                    Unlike the last poster (but like sygopet), I have persevered though (not sure why, but I have!) - I\'m now running BOINC on two computers and I\'ve given SZTAKI a small amount of resource share on the one that hardly ever gets turned off.

                    What does still annoy me is that:

                    a) nobody from SZTAKI seems to be saying when (or even whether) this problem is likely to be sorted out

                    b) in the meantime, as far as I can tell, there is still no prominent warning about this when you sign up (i.e. don\'t sign up for this unless your computer is on 24/7 and don\'t close BOINC down during a SZTAKI run if you still want to get credit for it) - that\'s the unforgivable bit, because even if programming a solution is hard, just putting up a warning would be so easy to do

                    By the way, thanks Ananas for trying to help, I will try it next time I need to do a shutdown on this computer.
                    ____________

                    Odysseus
                    Avatar
                    Send message
                    Joined: Feb 27 06
                    Posts: 212
                    Credit: 221,397
                    RAC: 0
                    Message 2495 - Posted 26 Apr 2006 19:08:01 UTC - in response to Message 2494.

                      Yes, of course it is a SZTAKI problem and not a BOINC problem, that\'s what I meant in my last post. I\'m certainly not aware of any other BOINC projects giving rise to this problem.


                      I have heard of one other with a checkpoint-related bug requiring that it be kept in memory, but sorry, I\'m not certain which. LHC, maybe? It wasn\'t one I\'m running myself; it came up in a discussion in another project\'s forum. However, it was also acknowledged to be a project-specific issue in that case, not a problem with BOINC. ISTR that it just caused processing to restart from the beginning, though, rather than producing invalid results.


                      ____________

                      Profile Ananas
                      Send message
                      Joined: Jul 12 05
                      Posts: 222
                      Credit: 665,833
                      RAC: 0
                      Message 2496 - Posted 26 Apr 2006 20:36:06 UTC

                        Last modified: 26 Apr 2006 20:37:08 UTC

                        CPDN is unstable on many computers without keeping it in memory.

                        I had cases where a CPDN crashed a few hours after a shutdown on a box that ran lots of trickles without a problem. It\'s not always required but ask anyone in the forum and they all will recommend it.

                        And that\'s with a project where the results need weeks and months.

                        Profile Nightbird
                        Forum moderator
                        Avatar
                        Send message
                        Joined: Jul 12 05
                        Posts: 920
                        Credit: 114,924
                        RAC: 0
                        Message 2497 - Posted 27 Apr 2006 1:07:00 UTC - in response to Message 2494.

                          Last modified: 27 Apr 2006 1:09:22 UTC

                          Yes, of course it is a SZTAKI problem and not a BOINC problem, that\'s what I meant in my last post. I\'m certainly not aware of any other BOINC projects giving rise to this problem.

                          Unlike the last poster (but like sygopet), I have persevered though (not sure why, but I have!) - I\'m now running BOINC on two computers and I\'ve given SZTAKI a small amount of resource share on the one that hardly ever gets turned off.

                          What does still annoy me is that:

                          a) nobody from SZTAKI seems to be saying when (or even whether) this problem is likely to be sorted out

                          b) in the meantime, as far as I can tell, there is still no prominent warning about this when you sign up (i.e. don\'t sign up for this unless your computer is on 24/7 and don\'t close BOINC down during a SZTAKI run if you still want to get credit for it) - that\'s the unforgivable bit, because even if programming a solution is hard, just putting up a warning would be so easy to do

                          By the way, thanks Ananas for trying to help, I will try it next time I need to do a shutdown on this computer.

                          - The code will be again checked.
                          - About a \"warning\", it\'s possible to give some \"advices\" (will do asap)
                          ____________

                          thl5282
                          Send message
                          Joined: Mar 21 06
                          Posts: 4
                          Credit: 36,554
                          RAC: 0
                          Message 2500 - Posted 27 Apr 2006 21:49:41 UTC

                            This is also my problem...
                            My last SIX(!!!) Workunits didn\'t have any credits...
                            look here: http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/results.php?userid=5960
                            Why should I continue processing SZTAKI while I\'m not crunching any credit???
                            ____________

                            Odysseus
                            Avatar
                            Send message
                            Joined: Feb 27 06
                            Posts: 212
                            Credit: 221,397
                            RAC: 0
                            Message 2503 - Posted 28 Apr 2006 21:14:19 UTC - in response to Message 2500.

                              Last modified: 28 Apr 2006 21:14:37 UTC

                              This is also my problem...
                              My last SIX(!!!) Workunits didn\'t have any credits...
                              look here: http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/results.php?userid=5960
                              Why should I continue processing SZTAKI while I\'m not crunching any credit???


                              My default advice would be just to have patience: it appears that the admins have been manually assigning credit to results that fail to validate for no good reason. However, I looked at a few of your invalid results and they all show that processing had been interrupted. Do you have your BOINC preferences set to leave suspended apps in memory?

                              It seems that frequently restarted systems are not suitable for this project; I\'d have attached a couple more hosts myself were it not for the checkpoint problem.

                              BTW that link to your results only works for you, having logged-in to your account. The rest of us have to go through your public page and its listing of your computers.


                              ____________

                              thl5282
                              Send message
                              Joined: Mar 21 06
                              Posts: 4
                              Credit: 36,554
                              RAC: 0
                              Message 2536 - Posted 1 May 2006 13:52:13 UTC - in response to Message 2503.

                                BTW that link to your results only works for you, having logged-in to your account. The rest of us have to go through your public page and its listing of your computers.



                                Sorry, I didn\'t know...

                                I don\'t think that my results had some failure in work, because my Computer is activ 24h/day and if the block isn\'t incorrect, the computer will work correctly, too. Isn\'t it like this?
                                ____________

                                Profile Ananas
                                Send message
                                Joined: Jul 12 05
                                Posts: 222
                                Credit: 665,833
                                RAC: 0
                                Message 2538 - Posted 1 May 2006 18:44:59 UTC

                                  Last modified: 1 May 2006 18:47:00 UTC

                                  <core_client_version>5.2.13</core_client_version>
                                  <stderr_txt>
                                  Fraction init: input_size=18434 start_pos=60
                                  Starting from line 1.
                                  Fraction init: input_size=18434 start_pos=60
                                  Restarting from checkpoint, # of lines processed so far 191, # of output lines so far 191.
                                  Starting from line 192.
                                  End of input, Number of processed lines200.

                                  </stderr_txt>


                                  This line in your result shows, that you have either shutdown BOINC or disabled \"Leave applications in memory while preempted?\". For SZTAKI it is important to set this to YES - until that point is fixed.
                                  _____________

                                  OT : Stammt Dein Nickname aus einem SciFi-Roman ? Irgendwie klingelt\'s bei THL bei mir, es koennte aber auch THX gewesen sein. Die zweite Hauptfigur hiess LUH (mit einer Zahl dahinter)

                                  thl5282
                                  Send message
                                  Joined: Mar 21 06
                                  Posts: 4
                                  Credit: 36,554
                                  RAC: 0
                                  Message 2541 - Posted 1 May 2006 21:34:54 UTC

                                    Last modified: 1 May 2006 21:37:13 UTC

                                    OK, THX.
                                    I saw, that there was a \"no\" but now it is \"yes\" ... i hope the problem is fixed soon...

                                    THX for your help

                                    -------------

                                    War die Frage an mich gestellt?
                                    Wenn ja... thl is nur meine Namensabk??rzung^^
                                    ____________

                                    Profile Ananas
                                    Send message
                                    Joined: Jul 12 05
                                    Posts: 222
                                    Credit: 665,833
                                    RAC: 0
                                    Message 2543 - Posted 2 May 2006 1:27:20 UTC - in response to Message 2541.

                                      Last modified: 2 May 2006 1:28:11 UTC

                                      War die Frage an mich gestellt?
                                      Wenn ja... thl is nur meine Namensabk??rzung^^



                                      Ach so - naja, manche nehmen schon Namen aus dem SciFi-Bereich, besonders die alte SETI-Gemeinde natuerlich. Waere auch ein ziemlicher Zufall gewesen, der Roman ist glaube ich nicht so sehr bekannt - trotzdem ist er gut :-)

                                      Post to thread

                                      Message boards : SZTAKI Desktop Grid : Missing credit


                                      Home | My Account | Message Boards


                                      Copyright © 2017 SZTAKI Desktop Grid