11 Dim. WU, Change Deadline?


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Profile Kajunfisher
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Message 421 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 0:48:28 UTC

    I only got one, but it's deadline is for tomorrow, putting me into EDF. No problem as the other work I have has deadlines further out, but if I had gotten more wu's here it might have been a problem. Once 1st results are returned could the deadline be extended?


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    Message 422 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 0:55:46 UTC

      On a reference 1000 Mhz computer it takes a little bit more than an hour to process 1 WU. So I don't really see the point why it would be neccessary to extend the deadline above 1 day. BUT! If all of you think that it would be useful, I am a guy who listens to the comments. :)
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      Message 423 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 1:01:17 UTC

        I only got one, so no problemo, but if someone got alot more, as some faster pc's than mine can, it might be a problem. I'm assuming we'll go back to regular deadlines after this initial wu(s)?

        (cheers for all your hard work!) :-)

        Stanley A Bourdon
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        Message 424 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 1:14:30 UTC

          Hi

          @Adam

          One of my hosts is on dialup and to get enough work to last 2+ days I have to set my connect to every 4 days. With a one day deadline that host will not get any work. If it did get work it would often not be able to return work in time because that hosts connects at variable intervals of 18 to 48 hours.
          The just over 4 day deadline was ok but for me 7 day deadline would be better.

          Thank you
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          Message 425 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 1:16:44 UTC

            Last modified: 2 Aug 2005 1:19:15 UTC

            I had one, it ran in 39 minutes. Got a new one in and immediately went into Earliest Deadline First mode. So yeah, I'd love to have a longer deadline. Especially since I am running a Boinc version (CC4.72) that doesn't auto-report all the time!

            Another thing is, I can't get more than one unit in with this 24 hour deadline, as I'll always get this message:

            02/08/2005 03:16:17|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: No work sent
            02/08/2005 03:16:17|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: (won't finish in time) Computer on 93.8% of time, BOINC on 99.5% of that, this project gets 14.3% of that
            02/08/2005 03:16:17|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|No work from project


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            Message 426 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 1:27:40 UTC

              Last modified: 2 Aug 2005 1:37:40 UTC

              I got a few WU's as well and I am okay with the shorter deadline as I have this project with twice the resource share as the others and a "connect every" set to .25 days. The issue is going to be those that have a connect duration of a day or more. The way the schedular works in 4.4x it will not download many WU's if any at all if you say connect set at 2 days, because you will not attempt to connect again before the WU's are due.

              There will be others that will have a lot to comment about this with some different explanations.

              [Edit]I just noticed the credit is being awarded on the first WU returned with it being issued to 5 computers. Are these being validated against each other or just each processes the data?[/edit]
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              Message 427 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 1:28:42 UTC

                Last modified: 2 Aug 2005 1:31:29 UTC

                I think a lot of people won't run the Project if kept at a 1 Day Deadline, in case you don't remember any Preference Setting you have to make at this Site Propagates across to all the other sites.

                If you have to set your preferences to 1 day to get work from here it's probably not a problem for the people that like to run all the projects. But for people (Including Myself) that only like to run 1 or 2 Projects at the most at one time it sort of restricts us from building up a few days WU cache supply.

                I know myself if I start to struggle to keep WU from a Project I just drop it and move on to another Project that the WU's are easier to get from ...

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                Message 429 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 2:32:19 UTC

                  This project is good for somewhat elderly machines because of the low RAM requirements (only 32 MB), but my P90 looks like it is going to take about a day and three quarters to crunch one of the new WUs. I got it, but I don't think that it will be in on time.
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                  Message 432 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 6:28:14 UTC

                    I have one that will take 4+ hours, usually they took an hour to process like my first one received today but this one is taking much longer. That's fine in general but with the 1 day deadline, it puts me into Earliest Deadline First mode and with how I'm set up here, I won't be able to crunch for other projects unless I start having to restrict work from this project as every DG WU will now takes priority over everything else until another project goes into panic mode.

                    Please extend the deadline on WU's. Thank you.

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                    Message 433 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 7:35:21 UTC

                      Last modified: 2 Aug 2005 7:37:23 UTC

                      I won't be able to crunch for other projects unless I start having to restrict work from this project as every DG WU will now takes priority over everything else until another project goes into panic mode.
                      ========

                      I noticed that myself, I pulled my computers from the this Project because I wasn't getting anything done for the other Projects. I also noticed that at a 1 day setting I wasn't even sure I would even be able to finish the WU's that this Project would give me as it seemed to under estimate the amount of time it would take me to do them.

                      It's saying 1:30:00 to do them but most of my Computers were taking longer to do them than that resulting in an overload of WU's that would have to be aborted when they hit the Deadline ... :/


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                      Message 434 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 7:51:59 UTC

                        Alright everyone, deadline will be raised.
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                        ric
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                        Message 436 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 8:15:30 UTC

                          Thankyou for this informations, that makes a project alive.


                          Just wanted to offer this situation:

                          some of my clients have still some LHC WUs todo, some of them has the deadline of today evening.

                          Even they would get SKDG work to do, due to the new boinc client rules, first the (for now) closer deadlines-based Work is done first.
                          Without intervention, it takes several hours, until SKDG work is started for really.

                          BTW
                          congratulations, the thingy with loosing the elapsed cpu time is solved...
                          Stoppend and restarted some boinc clients (4.45) having work from here and it restarted from the last shown time value, no more from the beginning.

                          Welldone!
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                          Message 445 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 13:54:42 UTC

                            Last modified: 2 Aug 2005 13:55:16 UTC

                            <a> On a reference 1000 Mhz computer it takes a little bit more than an hour to process 1 WU </a>


                            Are you sure about this? On my 3200Mhz Pentium IV with HT it takes about 4:30 to crunch a WU (dimension 11). In previous run, at dimension 10 it took about an hour. What is interesting my slower machine Amd Athlon on 1GHZ can finish a WU at almost same speed (could it be on optimization issue?)?

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                            Message 446 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 13:59:22 UTC

                              &gt; On a reference 1000 Mhz computer it takes a little bit more than an
                              &gt; hour to process 1 WU. So I don't really see the point why it would be
                              &gt; neccessary to extend the deadline above 1 day. BUT! If all of you
                              &gt; think that it would be useful, I am a guy who listens to the comments. :)

                              I have completely other times
                              P3 1000 - ~ 5:45 hours
                              P4 1800 - ~ 3:37
                              P4 2400 - ~ 2:18
                              AMD XP 2600+ - ~ 1:45


                              &gt; Alright everyone, deadline will be raised.

                              The deadline isn't yet changed. Is the deadline value part of the 'ready to send' WUs and a new value takes effect after creating new WUs?
                              Or is a new value valid for all WUs sent after the moment of changing the deadline value?


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                              Message 447 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 14:01:12 UTC

                                P4 3000 (HT) = ~3:22
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                                Message 460 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 22:49:38 UTC

                                  Barton 2500+ : 00:53 ; 00:39 ; 2:57
                                  Athlon64 3200+ : 2:41 ; 0:53

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                                  Message 461 - Posted 2 Aug 2005 23:48:13 UTC

                                    AMD 1200 Thunderbird = 4.25 approx with dim 11 / 1.05 approx with dim 10

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                                    Message 462 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 0:33:14 UTC

                                      Hi,

                                      @Adam,

                                      Problem one:
                                      I usually have my preferences set to 4 days. It did work fine with the previous set of WUs. I like to have a good stack of WUs ready to crunch instead of getting them 1 or 2 at a time.
                                      It takes me an average of 1.82 hours to crunch a WU.

                                      Problem 2:
                                      On the previous run (10 Dim) Sztaki was validating WUs 1 on 1 and automatically granting Claimed Credit to valid WUs. That was great.
                                      On this new run (11 Dim) WUs are validated in groups of 5, requiring 4 to grant credit and granting credit to all based on the credit claimed by the earliest valid WU returned. This is far from great.

                                      I used to get an average of 14.29 credit/hour with the 10 Dim run. Now I am getting an average of 9.13 credit/hour with the 11 Dim run. That will force me to drastically reduce my Ressource Share for this project.

                                      Adam, I really hope you are "a guy who listens to the comments. :)"

                                      Regards,
                                      Philippe



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                                      Message 465 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 2:32:00 UTC

                                        The Pentium 90 Museum piece looks as if it is going to take just over 2 days at the moment. I know that I am not going to get credit, but the final time might be interesting.
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                                        Message 489 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 18:15:39 UTC

                                          <i>BTW
                                          congratulations, the thingy with loosing the elapsed cpu time is solved...
                                          Stoppend and restarted some boinc clients (4.45) having work from here and it restarted from the last shown time value, no more from the beginning.</i>

                                          Also tested this with good results. I exited BOINC with a SZDG WU at 4:05 cpu time and restarted BOINC it picked up at 3:31 cpu time (which is correct because I have my time between disk writes set to 3:30).

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                                          Message 492 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 18:45:51 UTC

                                            <i>Barton 2500+ : 00:53 ; 00:39 ; 2:57
                                            Athlon64 3200+ : 2:41 ; 0:53</i>

                                            Barton 3000 ~2:24, 2:13
                                            Barton 2400 ~1:02, 2:44
                                            Barton 3200 ~1:38
                                            Palomino 1600 ~3:47
                                            Pent M 1.6 :54

                                            These are all over the place!!
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                                            Message 506 - Posted 4 Aug 2005 3:52:09 UTC

                                              The Pentium 90 seems to have taken 150,874.16 seconds or just under 2 days.
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                                              Message 507 - Posted 4 Aug 2005 4:08:59 UTC

                                                Last modified: 4 Aug 2005 4:14:33 UTC

                                                &gt; 2 Aug 2005 7:51:59 UTC
                                                &gt; Alright everyone, deadline will be raised.

                                                When??

                                                04/08/2005 06:02:25||Using earliest-deadline-first scheduling because computer is overcommitted.
                                                04/08/2005 06:02:25|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Started download of distribute.txt_0222bc79-3640-496f-9802-993a6b27347e
                                                04/08/2005 06:02:25|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Started download of distribute.txt_41185a78-9eef-4813-bf30-5d99e3bbd742
                                                04/08/2005 06:02:26|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Finished download of distribute.txt_0222bc79-3640-496f-9802-993a6b27347e
                                                04/08/2005 06:02:26|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Throughput 2656 bytes/sec
                                                04/08/2005 06:02:26|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Finished download of distribute.txt_41185a78-9eef-4813-bf30-5d99e3bbd742
                                                04/08/2005 06:02:26|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Throughput 2124 bytes/sec
                                                04/08/2005 06:02:26||request_reschedule_cpus: files downloaded
                                                04/08/2005 06:02:26||request_reschedule_cpus: files downloaded
                                                04/08/2005 06:02:26|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Starting result 0222bc79-3640-496f-9802-993a6b27347e_4 using search version 4.21


                                                Maybe you don't see it, Adam, but my computer went into EDF mode again. For your work units.

                                                If this keeps up, I'll be putting DG/SZTAKI onto No New Work for the remainder of the 11th dimension.

                                                I've got other projects to crunch, you know? So if you still have the unit deadline to one day, while it's two (almost 3) days after it was first found to be a problem, then I wonder where the fix is.

                                                Maybe i will be back when you got the problem fixed. In the mean time, run all the units on your server, if you want to. What do you need us for? Oh, of course, take over our Boinc systems completely, so nothing else but for DG/SZ is run. :(

                                                That's not why JM7 made the new scheduler, you know?

                                                Oh, this project is on No New Work until the deadline of units is fixed!
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                                                Message 508 - Posted 4 Aug 2005 5:45:32 UTC

                                                  Too short deadlines will be a problem for others projects :
                                                  Orbit@home =&gt; some hours (!) for some wus
                                                  What will happen if others projects choose a (too) short deadline ?
                                                  i don't imagine short deadlines with big wus, you can be sure that never you will be able to run others projects !
                                                  When Alife@home was runing, the deadline was at 3 days, sometimes 4 days and it was ok (for me at least).

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                                                  Message 513 - Posted 4 Aug 2005 17:15:46 UTC

                                                    Computers subscribed to more projects need longer deadlines. See http://boinc-doc.net/boinc-wiki/index.php?title=Work_Scheduler#BOINC_Work_Fetch_and_CPU_Policy_Design for an explanation how the deadline depends upon the number of projects. A deadline shorter than a week seems to be unusable.
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                                                    Message 514 - Posted 4 Aug 2005 18:21:06 UTC

                                                      I will also stop crunching for Sztaki until we have some news about the deadline and the strange credit calculation :-(


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                                                      Message 517 - Posted 4 Aug 2005 19:06:40 UTC

                                                        Last modified: 4 Aug 2005 19:07:40 UTC

                                                        just aborted 5 WUs because they passed the deadline of today early evening.

                                                        Even hosts running only for this project - and having queue depth of 0.1-0.3
                                                        it's working for host who are up 24 Hours/day.

                                                        Due to hot room, some of my clients are not running a couple of hours per day.
                                                        That's exactly the clients I had to cancel work.

                                                        I would like to add me to the list of demander for greater deadlines.

                                                        It can't be the project's target, to let people abort work only due to the shorten deadlines. I undestand people, supending/detaching the project.

                                                        Deadlines as they are right now, are IMHO not fitting the idea of boinc, to be able to support several projects more or less equal.
                                                        <b>BOINC=multiple projects</b>

                                                        Running only SKTAKI will narrow the idea of multiple projects.

                                                        Please listen to the "contributors" asks and increase the deadlines.

                                                        Honnestly, what is the project loosing/gaining, when you increase the deadline to 1 or 2 more days?

                                                        When people are canceling work or even suspending the project, might it's time to review/adapt/optimize some operating settings/rules....

                                                        friendly

                                                        ric

                                                        (The work getting now, still has a IMHO to short dedline)
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                                                        Message 522 - Posted 4 Aug 2005 23:49:51 UTC

                                                          Last modified: 4 Aug 2005 23:53:14 UTC

                                                          I don't have a problem....

                                                          I've got the following setup, resource share wise:

                                                          BURP: 600
                                                          CPDN: 100
                                                          Sztaki: 700
                                                          Predictor: 400
                                                          Einstein: 500
                                                          LHC: 200
                                                          SETI: 300

                                                          Athlon XP2800, 1.5GB RAM, Boinc 4.45, download every 0.1 days

                                                          It downloads a workunit for Sztaki, processes it straight away (using EDF) for 40 minutes, sends it back and then works on the others for a few hours before downloading the next workunit.

                                                          Never missed a deadline.

                                                          I worked my resource shares out by deadline order, then time taken
                                                          i.e. the earlier the deadline the higher number it got. If two projects have the same number the one which takes longer then gets the higher number.

                                                          I couldn't care less about amount of credit though....as long as the credit keeps going up I'm happy cause I know I'm contributing to the projects
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                                                          Message 550 - Posted 5 Aug 2005 21:37:32 UTC

                                                            We will work around the deadline problem more precisely, but the thing is that we have more than 10 million of WUs to be crunched and with this small computer park (little more than 2200 now) we will tackle around with 11 dimension for ages. That is why we'he tried to keep the deadlines short. I'll talk about this with the bosses on monday and if they say OK, than I'll raise the deadlines above 4 days.
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                                                            Message 558 - Posted 5 Aug 2005 22:42:41 UTC

                                                              Adam,
                                                              It's nice to see you back, we were a bit lost without you.
                                                              But no problem, this is not a military application or a TV show. We understand that things can go up and down.
                                                              BUT (there's always a but) I'm not sure that you can crunch the 10M WUs quicker because of the short deadline. If people cannot run several applications on the same PC they will leave Sztaki, I think.


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                                                              Message 562 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 8:33:12 UTC

                                                                Last modified: 6 Aug 2005 8:37:46 UTC

                                                                Adam, this is a misunderstanding. The resource share, not the deadline, determines how many units a computer will process, unless people leave the project because the deadline is too short...
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                                                                Message 563 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 9:23:29 UTC

                                                                  I don't think the ressources share is in cause. With a deadline of one day, BOINC manager turns into panic mode and you're doomed.


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                                                                  Message 566 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 14:00:45 UTC

                                                                    Hi

                                                                    On one hoste with a connect every .001 days and running 4.72 it works as it is suposeto downloads a workunit goesinto panic crunches long term debt goes way up and it wont download untill the longterm debt is cleared works fine

                                                                    on the other hoste set at 4 days and 4.71 it should not download but it dose and so far i have been able to send the workunits back before deadline but this will not always be true . and because the long term debt is suficently positive the debt schedular has not prevented download

                                                                    why are units with deadlines shorter than my connect to downloading they should not
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                                                                    Message 567 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 17:04:58 UTC

                                                                      I thought the idea behind long deadlines was to allow people like me, those with machines who are on a slow dial up connection to participate in the projects. I have one machine that I may not get to for months to connect to the server and I have one on DSL. For the rest, because I often do not get to them for a week or two, projects with short very deadlines just are not an option. I simply do not have the time or the inclination to be fighting with a slow dial up every day in multiple locations to return results to some friggin dc project. I like to think I have a little better life than that.. haha

                                                                      I am at a loss to understand why projects with a low number of hosts that dont analyaze the results for months think that very short deadlines benefit them. I would think that allowing the maxium number of hosts would the benefit the project more in the long run than a few hosts.

                                                                      At one time the idea behind distributed computing seemed to be to allow an average person to participate regardless of whether they were using a slow machine on dial up or a super fast machine that was always connected to the internet. But now seems that distributed computing (on the BOINC platform at least) is just for those with the fastest machines and connections. A pity in my opinion
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                                                                      Message 572 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 19:09:44 UTC

                                                                        Alright, alright, alright...I got the point. On monday I will overcome the deadline problem once and forever. It will be more than 4 days again. Back to the roots :) (also will try to cancel the WUs that haven't been downloaded yet)
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                                                                        Message 579 - Posted 7 Aug 2005 2:16:05 UTC

                                                                          Hi

                                                                          On one hoste with a connect every .001 days and running 4.72 it works as it is suposeto downloads a workunit goesinto panic crunches long term debt goes way up and it wont download untill the longterm debt is cleared works fine

                                                                          on the other hoste set at 4 days and 4.71 it should not download but it dose and so far i have been able to send the workunits back before deadline but this will not always be true . and because the long term debt is suficently positive the debt schedular has not prevented download

                                                                          why are units with deadlines shorter than my connect to downloading they should not

                                                                          There are two reasons. The first is that the latest server code has (stupidly IMO) turned this off. The second is that even with this on, you could get one WU (again stupid IMO).
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                                                                          Message 580 - Posted 7 Aug 2005 2:31:23 UTC

                                                                            I don't think the ressources share is in cause. With a deadline of one day, BOINC manager turns into panic mode and you're doomed.

                                                                            Actually, it is the resource share. After a project uses a lot of extra CPU time, it will be prevented from downloading work until the other projects have made up the CPU time the project with the short deadline has borrowed. This works a bit bettern in 4.72 than it does in 4.45 because of a suble (I believe compiler) bug.
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                                                                            Message 582 - Posted 7 Aug 2005 7:38:20 UTC

                                                                              John,
                                                                              I'm not sure. I have installed 4.72 yesterday. Since then I got two WUs Sztaki in place of one with 4.45. Each time a WU is finished, I received two new WU, one finished, two new, ... (I have an HT cpu).


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                                                                              Message 587 - Posted 8 Aug 2005 1:09:34 UTC

                                                                                With a dual, it can depend on what other programs are contactable or runnable at the moment how many WUs you get from any project. For example if you are attached to 6 projects, 5 of which have no work on your computer and are not contactable, the queue will be filled from the 6th. This is a slight change from 4.45.
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                                                                                Message 615 - Posted 9 Aug 2005 22:45:41 UTC

                                                                                  Well, Monday passed and the WU deadline is still only a day...

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                                                                                  Message 616 - Posted 9 Aug 2005 22:58:28 UTC

                                                                                    Once a WU is entered, it keeps its deadline. We just have to clear all of the old ones out first.
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                                                                                    Message 617 - Posted 9 Aug 2005 23:00:45 UTC

                                                                                      Ok, thanks for the information. I'm clearing, I'm clearing....

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                                                                                      Message 621 - Posted 10 Aug 2005 2:01:57 UTC

                                                                                        <i>why are units with deadlines shorter than my connect to downloading they should not...

                                                                                        <b>There are two reasons. The first is that the latest server code has (stupidly IMO) turned this off. The second is that even with this on, you could get one WU (again stupid IMO).</b></i>

                                                                                        Yes. At 1st i considered a gift. Now it becomes a pain.
                                                                                        But Adam will eliminate these problems by increasing deadline!
                                                                                        I cast a vote for 6 days.

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                                                                                        Message 626 - Posted 10 Aug 2005 18:33:59 UTC

                                                                                          Can we have an idea as to when we will have emptied the workunits with the 24 hour deadline?

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                                                                                          Message 630 - Posted 11 Aug 2005 9:52:33 UTC

                                                                                            Good news here: the WUs with the short deadline have been cancelled, and the deadline from now on is 4 DAYS.
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                                                                                            Message 631 - Posted 11 Aug 2005 10:45:25 UTC

                                                                                              Got my first unit in with the 4 day deadline, so thanks for that.
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                                                                                              Message 632 - Posted 11 Aug 2005 13:27:27 UTC

                                                                                                Great! This means after a week or so I could soonly back to crunch for this project.
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                                                                                                Message 633 - Posted 11 Aug 2005 14:42:19 UTC

                                                                                                  Welcome back, JaiL! Thanks for your patience!
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                                                                                                  Message 634 - Posted 11 Aug 2005 17:29:25 UTC

                                                                                                    Good job Adam. It works perfectly now.
                                                                                                    Thanks


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                                                                                                    Message 635 - Posted 11 Aug 2005 18:45:05 UTC

                                                                                                      <i>Good news here: the WUs with the short deadline have been cancelled, and the deadline from now on is 4 DAYS.

                                                                                                      -- Adam
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                                                                                                      Great news Adam. Looks good, no more panic mode. I think you will see more WU's crunched by the same amount of clients now. Also, good to hear the validation issue has been fixed. Now we can all just crunch away.

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                                                                                                      Message 653 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 17:02:49 UTC

                                                                                                        Welcome back, JaiL! Thanks for your patience!

                                                                                                        Adam it wasn't a question of patiente. My work required to be away so couldn't left my PC with WU's from this project (because of short deadline). In the period ahead I'll spend 3-4 days away. With 4 days deadline I can continue to crunch.
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