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Message 3137 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 16:21:51 UTC

    So...seems like with the current settings I can\'t restart the WU generator, until we optimize the new algorithm, which is in progress like havoc...
    So new workunits are to be arrive this week...keep checking though...
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    Message 3138 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 17:04:51 UTC

      Last modified: 19 Jun 2006 17:05:28 UTC

      hi adam

      i guess you are the best person to ask. do you approve of manipulating the system to get more than 500 work units per processor? i can\'t speak for everyone, but I will comply to your ruling. i\'ve researched different methods of doing this, and i could, but i haven\'t because it doesn\'t seem right to me.


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      Message 3141 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 17:50:37 UTC

        shouldn\'t this be page 6, not 5? (the one previous to this thread was page 5)
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        Message 3143 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 18:02:05 UTC - in response to Message 3141.

          Any word on being able to merge hosts to clean up the Hosts mess?
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          Message 3145 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 19:56:46 UTC - in response to Message 3143.

            Any word on being able to merge hosts to clean up the Hosts mess?

            See Adam\'s answer to my question(s) here - http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/forum_thread.php?id=321#3098

            2 post below in linked thread, you\'ll find how I did deal with this problem.
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            Message 3146 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 21:13:41 UTC - in response to Message 3145.

              Any word on being able to merge hosts to clean up the Hosts mess?

              See Adam\'s answer to my question(s) here - http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/forum_thread.php?id=321#3098

              2 post below in linked thread, you\'ll find how I did deal with this problem.


              If you\'re talking about editing client_state.xml to fill in client state, that\'s not what I\'m talking about. There is a problem with merging all the bogus hosts that have already been created in order to clean-up my hosts stats and list. Right now, merging hosts does not work very often, if at all, so I can\'t clean up the hundreds of duplicate hosts that already exist on my account. Most of these have 1-2 results, so I can\'t simply delete them either.
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              Message 3147 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 21:55:45 UTC - in response to Message 3141.

                Lee, yes it should be 6...I\'m just a bit tired :-)
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                Message 3148 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 21:58:10 UTC - in response to Message 3146.

                  Grenadier,
                  as I\'ve mentioned before, the update of the scheduler is a bit tricky here. I\'ll try to get it through as soon as possible, but the new algorithm is more important now. Hope you understand, and sorry for the inconvinience
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                  Message 3149 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 22:10:05 UTC - in response to Message 3138.

                    chkoler3,
                    yes, you are asking the right one ;-)
                    As a science project, dealing with a pretty abstract problem, it is our common task to solve the problem as soon as possible and to summon all the available processing power. I\'d be the happiest if I could announce tomorrow, that \'hey, guys! You did it, we\'ve finished with all of the input!\'
                    For this we\'ll use as much optimization as available.

                    So, I would say that I can\'t prohibit noone to tweak the user side of this system, but you have to know, that unfortunatelly BOINC is a pretty sensitive system and it needs to be carefully balanced to run smoothly in the long run.
                    I would say that I welcome all of the tweaking, because as I\'ve already mentioned it is our common aim to get produce results as fast as possible. But I have to ask all of you, who tweaks the system from the client side.

                    TRY TO BE FAIR! So try to develop methods that could be used by everyone and don\'t be selfish! Try to see the big picture: We\'re a community. If we work together, we can succeed together...but we can even fail together if we don\'t help each other.

                    So try to help each other as much as possible and I\'ll try to keep the balance on the server side, which as I\'ve mentioned (and the current state shows as well) isn\'t an easy task...but let that be my problem :-)
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                    Message 3150 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 22:22:52 UTC - in response to Message 3149.

                      chkoler3,
                      yes, you are asking the right one ;-)
                      As a science project, dealing with a pretty abstract problem, it is our common task to solve the problem as soon as possible and to summon all the available processing power. I\'d be the happiest if I could announce tomorrow, that \'hey, guys! You did it, we\'ve finished with all of the input!\'
                      For this we\'ll use as much optimization as available.

                      So, I would say that I can\'t prohibit noone to tweak the user side of this system, but you have to know, that unfortunatelly BOINC is a pretty sensitive system and it needs to be carefully balanced to run smoothly in the long run.
                      I would say that I welcome all of the tweaking, because as I\'ve already mentioned it is our common aim to get produce results as fast as possible. But I have to ask all of you, who tweaks the system from the client side.

                      TRY TO BE FAIR! So try to develop methods that could be used by everyone and don\'t be selfish! Try to see the big picture: We\'re a community. If we work together, we can succeed together...but we can even fail together if we don\'t help each other.

                      So try to help each other as much as possible and I\'ll try to keep the balance on the server side, which as I\'ve mentioned (and the current state shows as well) isn\'t an easy task...but let that be my problem :-)


                      thanks for the response adam. i know some crunchers that have already left this project because there has been hardly any work available. this is the result of others being unfair. i\'m good at looking into the work units and computers and i know what\'s going on. the system has been manipulated to grab up to 4000 work units per day on multiple computers by the same users.

                      i think that if everyone took only 500 work units per processor you would still run out of work, so taking more than the quota is selfish. to be fair i will not take more than the quota and i can only hope that others will see this is the right thing to do and follow.

                      if i continue to get walked on because i am trying to be the better person i will leave the project. this will probably delight the unfair and selfish users to no end, but what else can i do?

                      none of my ill feelings are towards you at all adam. i\'ve been around many boinc project forums and to me you rank among the very best project admins. i wish you great success in your project.

                      ckohler3
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                      Message 3151 - Posted 19 Jun 2006 23:05:04 UTC - in response to Message 3150.

                        I can only agree with ckohler3. I might even go further by suggesting that some means be derived so that those who have lots of units \"timed out\" can have their allocation reduced: they obviously can\'t cope!
                        I was one of the fortunate ones who received a few units on Saturday (17th June). Of nine units received, eight were reissues of units which had originally gone to others who had not been able to do anything with them; these people often had long average turnaround times (7 days or more).
                        Cut the cache size to 50 units for everyone and the work will get done quicker in the end.
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                        Message 3152 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 1:22:14 UTC - in response to Message 3150.


                          thanks for the response adam. i know some crunchers that have already left this project because there has been hardly any work available. this is the result of others being unfair. i\'m good at looking into the work units and computers and i know what\'s going on. the system has been manipulated to grab up to 4000 work units per day on multiple computers by the same users.


                          Hi all,

                          I can\'t understand how one could get 4000 work units per day ... I always thought there was a 2000 WUs limit for one computer ??? Maybe i\'ve misunderstood something ?

                          By the way, I don\'t know how you can claim some are unfair hoarding work units ... for example, my Boinc is set up as a daemon, trying to request work every X hours. But I can\'t decide wether I\'ll have work ! Sometimes I get some, sometimes i don\'t ... I\'m not clever enough to boost ATM frames over the network to make them reach sztaki servers faster than any other user !!! ;) I reall do think that random will decide who\'ll be the one to succeed in reaching szatki servers first !

                          Anyway, we\'ve got a paradox here ! The goal for Sztaki is to run as fast as possible ... Akosf\'s optimized clients are very impressive and efficient to reach this goal.
                          The goal for some users is to get as many credits as posssible.

                          The only way to succeed for both is to have a powerful WU generator ... well powerful enough to create at least as many units as what will be consumed by users ...

                          Just a last word about the \"fake CPU\" feature in some BoincManager-clones.
                          The limit in each project (Einstein\'s got one too. I don\'t know for other projetcs), was set up, in my opinion, to prevent a computer (with some kind of \"still bugged modified boinc clone\") from downloading a huge amount of WUs without being able to crunch them within the deadline. I can\'t imagine it was set up to prevent users from giving the maximum of their CPUs to a project ! (I think Adam agrees when he says his goal is \"to solve the problem as soon as possible and to summon all the available processing power\").
                          The \"fake CPU number\" feature was needed to get more WUs when optimized clients got in the place ! And it was a way to help the project, allowing users to give more CPU power ! Downloaded WUs weren\'t wasted : they were crunched !
                          Now the problem lies in the lack of WUs given by the generator ... But the fact that I use fake CPU feature to give as much CPU power as possible to sztaki can\'t directly be related to my consuming of units during these times of lack !!! I can have zero WU to crunch on my 8-CPUs Pentium4 ... It\'s useful when there are plenty of units ... It\'s not very useful currently ...

                          So I see a potential two-step process to solve this problem ...
                          First, someone behind sztaki finds a way to increase the number of available units (hardware boost of the generator ? code optimization ? new computer to help the current ones ? ...).
                          Then, an optimized version of sztaki client should be released by default, to keep equality between users (of course, the limit used to avoid the problem of a bugged boinc downloading too many units, should be rised to allow users to free all their CPUs power). Then, it will be useless to fake our CPUs number.

                          If anyone wants to use BoincStudio (the BoincManager clone with the \"fake CPU number\" feature) used by some users in AF : it\'s available at http://boinc-studio.nikolai.be/ ... Thus everyone will be equal to others ... It\'s not a secret weapon that we keep for fighting with some kind of enemies ! ;) It\'s even been translated in various languages ...
                          I repeat it one more time but faking our CPUs number in our computers is a way to give more power to Sztaki ... there\'s no aim to prevent other users to download WUs ... Some of our members are still without WUs !!!

                          I sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding that maybe occured previously. I\'ve come here to give, quietly, my point of view, to point out problems, and to give the solutions i can see ... not to see a war between users ...

                          There are enough people lacking food and water in the world ... We can\'t decently fight for a lack of work units ...

                          Yours faithfully,

                          Ben from L\'Alliance Francophone.
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                          Message 3153 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 2:53:50 UTC

                            Simple math, if you download 2000 wus and your computer take 1 minute (just a figure for this message) to do each work unit it would take 2000 minutes to finish the wus. If 4 computer downloaded 500 wus each and it took still 1 minute to complete each wu it would take 500 minutes to finish the all the wus. So you are slowing down science, the 4 computers finished the 2000 wus in 500 minutes while you only completed 500 in the same time and everyone is out of work because someone didn\'t want to play by the same rules everyone else was using.
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                            Message 3154 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 3:15:16 UTC

                              Last modified: 20 Jun 2006 3:55:56 UTC

                              You\'re right ...

                              As said before, all the problem lies in the generator ....
                              Its lack of performance is the real problem that slows down the global crunching speed ....
                              is there any solution found or in study to improve the generator capacity and stop all this useless arguing ?
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                              Message 3155 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 4:07:30 UTC - in response to Message 3154.

                                You\'re right ...

                                As said before, all the problem lies in the generator ....
                                Its lack of performance is the real problem that slows down the global crunching speed ....
                                is there any solution found or in study to improve the generator capacity and stop all this useless arguing ?


                                i agree with you fully that if the generator could handle the load this problem would be solved. in that case i would even encourage people to manipulate the system to download as much work as they could possiby complete.

                                but right now the generator can not produce enough work units.
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                                Message 3156 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 8:57:10 UTC - in response to Message 3153.

                                  Last modified: 20 Jun 2006 9:18:47 UTC

                                  Simple math, if you download 2000 wus and your computer take 1 minute (just a figure for this message) to do each work unit it would take 2000 minutes to finish the wus. If 4 computer downloaded 500 wus each and it took still 1 minute to complete each wu it would take 500 minutes to finish the all the wus. So you are slowing down science, the 4 computers finished the 2000 wus in 500 minutes while you only completed 500 in the same time and everyone is out of work because someone didn\'t want to play by the same rules everyone else was using.


                                  Just opposite - we\'ve got situation now, when 1 computer with optimized application corresponds with many computers without such application and probably having optimization was the real, justified and good for science reason of this \"bad\" downloading.

                                  In that more realistic model this \"bad\" computer with optimized application crunches 2000 min, but if only 1 from those 4 computers is not optimized and akosf rate ;) was say 50 this crunching by 4 computers takes 25000 min.

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                                  Message 3158 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 10:33:16 UTC

                                    Last modified: 20 Jun 2006 10:33:49 UTC

                                    Hi all! So the big picture is:

                                      * Bring all clients to the same speed.
                                      * Make the WU generator much faster.



                                    I think Adam is already working on it, but he has just two hands. Be patient! All will come out good.
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                                    Message 3159 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 11:33:46 UTC - in response to Message 3156.

                                      Simple math, if you download 2000 wus and your computer take 1 minute (just a figure for this message) to do each work unit it would take 2000 minutes to finish the wus. If 4 computer downloaded 500 wus each and it took still 1 minute to complete each wu it would take 500 minutes to finish the all the wus. So you are slowing down science, the 4 computers finished the 2000 wus in 500 minutes while you only completed 500 in the same time and everyone is out of work because someone didn\'t want to play by the same rules everyone else was using.


                                      Just opposite - we\'ve got situation now, when 1 computer with optimized application corresponds with many computers without such application and probably having optimization was the real, justified and good for science reason of this \"bad\" downloading.

                                      In that more realistic model this \"bad\" computer with optimized application crunches 2000 min, but if only 1 from those 4 computers is not optimized and akosf rate ;) was say 50 this crunching by 4 computers takes 25000 min.


                                      both narwhal and i are running the 50x akosf application on all of out computers. we have never opposed this. so if we got some of the work units that are being hoarded the science undoubtably would get done faster.
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                                      Message 3160 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 11:43:15 UTC - in response to Message 3158.

                                        Hi all! So the big picture is:
                                          * Bring all clients to the same speed.
                                          * Make the WU generator much faster.



                                        I think Adam is already working on it, but he has just two hands. Be patient! All will come out good.


                                        And this way, nobody will be left behind.

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                                        Message 3161 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 11:52:34 UTC - in response to Message 3156.

                                          Just opposite - we\'ve got situation now, when 1 computer with optimized application corresponds with many computers without such application and probably having optimization was the real, justified and good for science reason of this \"bad\" downloading.

                                          In that more realistic model this \"bad\" computer with optimized application crunches 2000 min, but if only 1 from those 4 computers is not optimized and akosf rate ;) was say 50 this crunching by 4 computers takes 25000 min.


                                          There are enough computers using optimized clients that wouldn\'t be the case and the slower computer wouldn\'t be requesting large amounts of work (if their numbers aren\'t jacked up). Work from the inflated computers is still being returned, my AMDs were completeing the last work batch in (avg) ~30-40 seconds, they could have completed their 1000 work units in less than half a day (if they could have got enough work).

                                          A faster/better work generator would be the answer, but Adam is stuck right now with what equipment he has, maybe someone can improve the software that writes the work?

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                                          Message 3162 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 12:07:48 UTC - in response to Message 3159.

                                            Last modified: 20 Jun 2006 12:08:32 UTC

                                            Simple math, if you download 2000 wus and your computer take 1 minute (just a figure for this message) to do each work unit it would take 2000 minutes to finish the wus. If 4 computer downloaded 500 wus each and it took still 1 minute to complete each wu it would take 500 minutes to finish the all the wus. So you are slowing down science, the 4 computers finished the 2000 wus in 500 minutes while you only completed 500 in the same time and everyone is out of work because someone didn\'t want to play by the same rules everyone else was using.


                                            Just opposite - we\'ve got situation now, when 1 computer with optimized application corresponds with many computers without such application and probably having optimization was the real, justified and good for science reason of this \"bad\" downloading.

                                            In that more realistic model this \"bad\" computer with optimized application crunches 2000 min, but if only 1 from those 4 computers is not optimized and akosf rate ;) was say 50 this crunching by 4 computers takes 25000 min.


                                            both narwhal and i are running the 50x akosf application on all of out computers. we have never opposed this. so if we got some of the work units that are being hoarded the science undoubtably would get done faster.


                                            But this 4th computer is not running akosf ;) and such 4000 downloading indead saved WUs from slowly crunching (and saved energy). By the way proportion is rather opposite and more users crunch without optimization.
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                                            Message 3163 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 12:59:11 UTC - in response to Message 3162.

                                              But this 4th computer is not running akosf ;) and such 4000 downloading indead saved WUs from slowly crunching (and saved energy). By the way proportion is rather opposite and more users crunch without optimization.

                                              If the system is working correctly, the slow computer wouldn\'t request large amounts of work. What has happen by jacking the numbers up is any computer can and does download more work that it can complete in a given amount of time. 2 real CPUs do more work than 2 or 4 or 8 imaginary CPUs. My complaint isn\'t with optimized clients, I think it\'s great and Akosf has done a great service to SZTAKI (and other projects). My complaint is when someone ups the number of CPU\'s their computer has, especially when it can\'t complete a 500 or 1000 work unit download in 24 hours, it\'s just plain greed and doesn\'t help the project. The work per CPU limit sucks, and maybe needs to be changed. A better system would let you download a batch of work, once completed you could download another batch without a limit. Faster computer get all the work they need, and the project gets more work done faster.
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                                              Message 3164 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 13:09:22 UTC

                                                LOL, there\'s now a computer claiming to have 12 CPUs
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                                                Message 3165 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 14:22:51 UTC - in response to Message 3162.

                                                  Simple math, if you download 2000 wus and your computer take 1 minute (just a figure for this message) to do each work unit it would take 2000 minutes to finish the wus. If 4 computer downloaded 500 wus each and it took still 1 minute to complete each wu it would take 500 minutes to finish the all the wus. So you are slowing down science, the 4 computers finished the 2000 wus in 500 minutes while you only completed 500 in the same time and everyone is out of work because someone didn\'t want to play by the same rules everyone else was using.


                                                  Just opposite - we\'ve got situation now, when 1 computer with optimized application corresponds with many computers without such application and probably having optimization was the real, justified and good for science reason of this \"bad\" downloading.

                                                  In that more realistic model this \"bad\" computer with optimized application crunches 2000 min, but if only 1 from those 4 computers is not optimized and akosf rate ;) was say 50 this crunching by 4 computers takes 25000 min.


                                                  both narwhal and i are running the 50x akosf application on all of out computers. we have never opposed this. so if we got some of the work units that are being hoarded the science undoubtably would get done faster.


                                                  But this 4th computer is not running akosf ;) and such 4000 downloading indead saved WUs from slowly crunching (and saved energy). By the way proportion is rather opposite and more users crunch without optimization.


                                                  i\'m not talking about any 4th computer. i\'m talking about my 2 amd 64 3400+ computers that finish the work units in less than one minute. if i could download 500 work units each the science would happen faster. if someone downloads 2000 work units (and really has less than 4 processors) i could have finished their second 1000 work units before they could. if you can\'t agree with that i really don\'t know what else i could say to make you understand.

                                                  if this 4th computer is not optimized it will not download many work units at all as narwhal said. i do agree with you that if everyone was optimized the science would happen faster.

                                                  adam said he\'s ok with manipulating the system to get get more work. he also said to try to be fair. the intent behind downloading most of this work over the 500 per cpu was an attempt by one team to deprive another team of work. do you call that fair?

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                                                  Message 3166 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 14:43:31 UTC - in response to Message 3163.

                                                    The work per CPU limit sucks, and maybe needs to be changed. A better system would let you download a batch of work, once completed you could download another batch without a limit. Faster computer get all the work they need, and the project gets more work done faster.

                                                    This is the system which BOINC is designed to operate under and it works very well on my (one computer) system (when the servers at the \"far end\" are working!).
                                                    But you do need to be connected to the net all the time, or reasonably often during the day. How then do you then keep those people happy who may only connect at longer time intervals - it is claimed (from some with computer farms) that you have to have a large cache if you can only connect once a week!
                                                    Ho hum!
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                                                    Message 3167 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 15:07:23 UTC - in response to Message 3163.

                                                      But this 4th computer is not running akosf ;) and such 4000 downloading indead saved WUs from slowly crunching (and saved energy). By the way proportion is rather opposite and more users crunch without optimization.

                                                      If the system is working correctly, the slow computer wouldn\'t request large amounts of work. What has happen by jacking the numbers up is any computer can and does download more work that it can complete in a given amount of time. 2 real CPUs do more work than 2 or 4 or 8 imaginary CPUs. My complaint isn\'t with optimized clients, I think it\'s great and Akosf has done a great service to SZTAKI (and other projects). My complaint is when someone ups the number of CPU\'s their computer has, especially when it can\'t complete a 500 or 1000 work unit download in 24 hours, it\'s just plain greed and doesn\'t help the project. The work per CPU limit sucks, and maybe needs to be changed. A better system would let you download a batch of work, once completed you could download another batch without a limit. Faster computer get all the work they need, and the project gets more work done faster.

                                                      That\'s right - WUs limit per CPU is not appropriate in optimizations era.
                                                      Maybe it would be good only initially and than sould be gradually increased depanding on WU/day speed and decreased depanding on delay coeffitient.
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                                                      Message 3169 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 15:36:28 UTC - in response to Message 3166.

                                                        How then do you then keep those people happy who may only connect at longer time intervals - it is claimed (from some with computer farms) that you have to have a large cache if you can only connect once a week!
                                                        Ho hum!

                                                        Good question 2 of my fastest computers are on dial-up and only connected when I\'m at work. Still looking the the return history you can see they\'re able to complete the work sent to them in less than 24 hours. That\'s the reasoning behind the prefrencs settings. Still looking at some of the arguments here those computers are slowing things down here, they\'re not returning work fast enough because the only connect every x number of days.
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                                                        Message 3170 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 16:26:36 UTC - in response to Message 3165.

                                                          Last modified: 20 Jun 2006 16:41:39 UTC


                                                          i\'m not talking about any 4th computer. i\'m talking about my 2 amd 64 3400+ computers that finish the work units in less than one minute. if i could download 500 work units each the science would happen faster. if someone downloads 2000 work units (and really has less than 4 processors) i could have finished their second 1000 work units before they could. if you can\'t agree with that i really don\'t know what else i could say to make you understand.


                                                          If only your computer would work and this \"bad\" computer you would be right, but we can\'t base on not realistic models - there are a lot of computers without optimization, who\'s not optimized crunching is relatively lost for science, lost because they can be used better. If they crunch this realtively lost is sure, but lack of WUs for you and for me now and for them is not necessery the lost of computing power for science. There is still chance, that we crunch for other projects in that time.


                                                          if this 4th computer is not optimized it will not download many work units at all as narwhal said. i do agree with you that if everyone was optimized the science would happen faster.


                                                          So it ist your conclusion, not mine that only optimized computer can download more WUs per CPU, if so then they have big chances to finish it\'s work on time.


                                                          adam said he\'s ok with manipulating the system to get get more work. he also said to try to be fair. the intent behind downloading most of this work over the 500 per cpu was an attempt by one team to deprive another team of work. do you call that fair?


                                                          For me his intent doesn\'t matter - important is whole efficency and preventing WUs from slowly crunching by not optimized application.

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                                                          Message 3171 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 17:03:18 UTC - in response to Message 3170.


                                                            i\'m not talking about any 4th computer. i\'m talking about my 2 amd 64 3400+ computers that finish the work units in less than one minute. if i could download 500 work units each the science would happen faster. if someone downloads 2000 work units (and really has less than 4 processors) i could have finished their second 1000 work units before they could. if you can\'t agree with that i really don\'t know what else i could say to make you understand.


                                                            If only your computer would work and this \"bad\" computer you would be right, but we can\'t base on not realistic models - there are a lot of computers without optimization, who\'s not optimized crunching is relatively lost for science, lost because they can be used better. If they crunch this realtively lost is sure, but lack of WUs for you and for me now and for them is not necessery the lost of computing power for science. There is still chance, that we crunch for other projects in that time.





                                                            if this 4th computer is not optimized it will not download many work units at all as narwhal said. i do agree with you that if everyone was optimized the science would happen faster.


                                                            So it ist your conclusion, not mine that only optimized computer can download more WUs per CPU, if so then they have big chances to finish it\'s work on time.


                                                            adam said he\'s ok with manipulating the system to get get more work. he also said to try to be fair. the intent behind downloading most of this work over the 500 per cpu was an attempt by one team to deprive another team of work. do you call that fair?


                                                            For me his intent doesn\'t matter - important is whole efficency and preventing WUs from slowly crunching by not optimized application.


                                                            my final post in this discussion is just to say again i have 2 optimized computers that are dry for work because others are manipulating the system. this is neither fair or good for the science. if you don\'t get it i don\'t know what to say. maybe someday you will. you say the most important thing is efficency and preventing wus from slowly crunching by a non optimized machine. how does keeping wu from me accomplish this? don\'t bother answering because i will not. this discussion has been an entire waste of time.


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                                                            Message 3172 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 17:16:48 UTC

                                                              If you look at the results and take away all the inflated numbers, the fastest computer didn\'t get allot of of work. The AMD and Intel dual cores are by far the fastest computers on this project followed by the Intel Xeons with the Power Macs mixed in there. And yes I\'m talking about computers using optimized clients.

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                                                              Message 3173 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 17:47:46 UTC

                                                                Last modified: 20 Jun 2006 17:48:49 UTC

                                                                my final post in this discussion is just to say again i have 2 optimized computers that are dry for work because others are manipulating the system. this is neither fair or good for the science. if you don\'t get it i don\'t know what to say. maybe someday you will. you say the most important thing is efficency and preventing wus from slowly crunching by a non optimized machine. how does keeping wu from me accomplish this? don\'t bother answering because i will not. this discussion has been an entire waste of time.


                                                                I agree on your last statement. This discussion is a big waste of time and produces too much hot air about nothing. It is useless at this moment to complain about not getting enough WUs to crunch, because the server has to be updated. It is not your job to do that. It is Adams job. When he is done, you can crunch as much workunits and as fast as your computer can. If someone of us misbehaves, i am sure Adam will find the appropriate solution for that too.

                                                                This should be fun for all of us. No need to point a finger at other nice people.

                                                                Greetings
                                                                von Halenbach
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                                                                Message 3174 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 18:19:48 UTC - in response to Message 3171.

                                                                  Last modified: 20 Jun 2006 18:20:39 UTC

                                                                  my final post in this discussion is just to say again i have 2 optimized computers that are dry for work because others are manipulating the system. this is neither fair or good for the science.


                                                                  Or maybe because, saturday\'s night, I put 27 computers (34 CPUs/cores) with optimized apps on sztaki. Sunday afternoon, I have download ~15 000 work units; 15 000 less for others, especially you.

                                                                  this discussion has been an entire waste of time.


                                                                  I agree.
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                                                                  Message 3175 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 18:46:15 UTC - in response to Message 3171.

                                                                    ...you say the most important thing is efficency and preventing wus from slowly crunching by a non optimized machine. how does keeping wu from me accomplish this?...

                                                                    Just side effect and if you crunch for other projects there are no lost for science. Try to see other projects on this \"big picture\".
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                                                                    Message 3176 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 19:05:19 UTC - in response to Message 3165.

                                                                      adam said he\'s ok with manipulating the system to get get more work. he also said to try to be fair. the intent behind downloading most of this work over the 500 per cpu was an attempt by one team to deprive another team of work. do you call that fair?


                                                                      Oh ... I thought it was a writable AND readable forum ! ;)
                                                                      Ok ... you\'re right .. this discussion is a waste of time. I thought I was clear enough in my last posts. It seems i wasn\'t.

                                                                      Well, everyone agree saying the main problem is the WUs generator, and you go on telling us that all the problem is from L\'allaince francophone ! As if we\'ve done complex calculations to dry eveyone\'s cache !

                                                                      Trying to mix a team fight with the WU generator lack of power is occulting the real problem and a real non sense too.

                                                                      I\'ll repeat it one last time, our caches are also dried by the lack of WUs ... (less visible on computers connected 24/24 7/7). We are not hidding thousands of units in our pockets ! The units we manage to download (randomly) are crunched.
                                                                      If I could produce 1 million units clapping my hands for everyone to have work, I\'d do so ! It would be a much more pleasant situation for everybody. Please, stop saying this non sense statement : we are not organized to prevent other users from crunching units ... this is not our goal ! If tou do think so, I suggest you try to do something against your paranoia !

                                                                      I really hope an improvement in the generator will help us to get out from this sad situation, (just a suggestion, maybe it is not possible, but Akosf has improved efficiently the clients ... couldn\'t he do anything on the generator to boost it ?).

                                                                      Ben from AF.
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                                                                      Message 3177 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 19:37:07 UTC - in response to Message 3176.

                                                                        ... As if we\'ve done complex calculations to dry eveyone\'s cache ! ...



                                                                        Did you?








                                                                        *grin*

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                                                                        Message 3178 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 21:08:11 UTC

                                                                          Yeah ... I must admit ... Our aim is to control the world, and the only solution we found was to catch as many sztaki units as possible !

                                                                          Protect yours or you\'ll see an AF member come and steal\'em !

                                                                          We\'ve got chests plenty of WUs in the walls of our houses. And we will NEVER crunch them ... cause the only thing we want is to make Sztaki generator stuck !

                                                                          :-)

                                                                          Errr ... well ... any news about the real problem : the generator ?
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                                                                          Message 3179 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 22:34:30 UTC

                                                                            Last modified: 20 Jun 2006 22:41:24 UTC

                                                                            I alerted my team mates to protect their WUs.

                                                                            No WU-napping in our team !!!


                                                                            (*looks around* where\'s my WUs?)

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                                                                            Message 3180 - Posted 20 Jun 2006 23:40:27 UTC - in response to Message 3179.

                                                                              I alerted my team mates to protect their WUs.

                                                                              No WU-napping in our team !!!

                                                                              (*looks around* where\'s my WUs?)

                                                                              I was keeping mine in a Klein bottle, but they all seem to have leaked out. I\'ll have to seal it with a Sierpinski gasket next time ... assuming I ever get any more ...
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                                                                              Message 3181 - Posted 21 Jun 2006 10:48:08 UTC - in response to Message 3180.

                                                                                Odysseus, you\'ll get more WUs, don\'t you worry! :-)

                                                                                Funny team, you are, guys...
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                                                                                Message 3182 - Posted 21 Jun 2006 13:26:32 UTC

                                                                                  I was looking at all my pending credits and trying to see who was slowing down the system. We\'ve all been out of work for more than a couple of days, we finished our work in record time and could have done more if .....
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                                                                                  Message 3184 - Posted 21 Jun 2006 14:36:58 UTC

                                                                                    Last modified: 21 Jun 2006 14:37:34 UTC

                                                                                    Hello Adam! I have one question again.
                                                                                    Would the creditsystem be changed to that of the Einstein@Home project? They had similar issues with fair accunting of credits. They give now a fixed value of credits to the clients for fixed lenght of workunit.
                                                                                    Who does more work gets more credits. Simple.

                                                                                    The Server decides if and how much credit be given for the workunit, not the manipulated clients. That can solve the every now and then coming up issue with fairness on the credit.


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                                                                                    Message 3185 - Posted 21 Jun 2006 15:13:49 UTC - in response to Message 3182.

                                                                                      Last modified: 21 Jun 2006 15:21:21 UTC

                                                                                      I was looking at all my pending credits and trying to see who was slowing down the system. We\'ve all been out of work for more than a couple of days, we finished our work in record time and could have done more if .....


                                                                                      1.Lack of work is rather something seldom and temporarily in BOINC, so we can not accuse anybody of his good ! job for science, because of some exceptionally situation.

                                                                                      2.Pending credit doesn\'t mean bad usage of computing power.

                                                                                      3. \"Slowing down of system\" - depends on intervals, when you do measure it. You can receive various results depending on size of this intervals. So maybe this interval applied by you, in which you suppose (but not measure) \"Slowing down of system\" is not important for project. Maybe it\'s like measure delay of train between stations ;) ? - Such claim to rail based on this messure would be rather strange.
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                                                                                      Message 3186 - Posted 21 Jun 2006 15:43:16 UTC

                                                                                        Can we have a daily status report under \"News\" on the home page, at least until WU are available?

                                                                                        TIA
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                                                                                        Message 3191 - Posted 22 Jun 2006 0:45:21 UTC - in response to Message 3186.

                                                                                          Last modified: 22 Jun 2006 21:07:44 UTC

                                                                                          Can we have a daily status report under \"News\" on the home page, at least until WU are available?

                                                                                          TIA

                                                                                          Not exactly what you wish but I think that it would be possible to put in the news on the home page when/that new wus will/are available.
                                                                                          Subscribe also to this thread, that can help since Adam writes here also.

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                                                                                          Message 3192 - Posted 22 Jun 2006 1:54:37 UTC

                                                                                            How about I modify the client and recomplie the libraries to send a request for work every millisecond? Two servers in my data center with a 30GB/sec throughput ought to be enough to...

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                                                                                            Message 3193 - Posted 22 Jun 2006 5:02:36 UTC - in response to Message 3192.

                                                                                              Last modified: 22 Jun 2006 5:04:07 UTC

                                                                                              How about I modify the client and recomplie the libraries to send a request for work every millisecond? Two servers in my data center with a 30GB/sec throughput ought to be enough to...

                                                                                              Probably you will get more WUs, but the WU generator will not be able to create more WUs, so it doesn\'t help on the project. Perhaps it will cause some other server problems, because everybody will use a similar \'millisecond\' or \'nanosecond\' scheduler. And as far as i know the international bandwidth of Hungary is only 90GB/s...

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                                                                                              Message 3194 - Posted 22 Jun 2006 10:47:46 UTC - in response to Message 3192.

                                                                                                How about I modify the client and recomplie the libraries to send a request for work every millisecond? Two servers in my data center with a 30GB/sec throughput ought to be enough to...


                                                                                                That would get you probably get banned from the project for ever, because your ip adress would be send with your requests for new packets. Your wish to do more work than others could be misinterpreted as an hacking attempt.

                                                                                                Greetings
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                                                                                                Message 3195 - Posted 22 Jun 2006 10:54:00 UTC - in response to Message 3194.

                                                                                                  So the French team is not hacking for personal gain?



                                                                                                  How about I modify the client and recomplie the libraries to send a request for work every millisecond? Two servers in my data center with a 30GB/sec throughput ought to be enough to...


                                                                                                  That would get you probably get banned from the project for ever, because your ip adress would be send with your requests for new packets. Your wish to do more work than others could be misinterpreted as an hacking attempt.

                                                                                                  Greetings
                                                                                                  vonHalenbach


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                                                                                                  Message 3196 - Posted 22 Jun 2006 11:50:22 UTC - in response to Message 3195.

                                                                                                    Last modified: 22 Jun 2006 11:55:55 UTC

                                                                                                    So the French team is not hacking for personal gain?




                                                                                                    Which \"personal gain\" ? You don\'t get Money for your effort. So you can buy maybe a new car from your credits? We like to have you to help the project, but please don\'t overdo it (be cool). When the system gets abused because of the credits, the credits must be disabled completly. Competition is a good thing, but not greed.

                                                                                                    PS: I think the French team joined us recently, and they have many powerful machines, that got a multiplied boost from akos client. That was kinda good (or bad) luck.

                                                                                                    Greetings
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                                                                                                    Message 3198 - Posted 22 Jun 2006 12:51:30 UTC - in response to Message 3186.

                                                                                                      David,
                                                                                                      sure I can, and sorry for not doing so, so far, but I\'m a bit overcommitted :-) hope you understand
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                                                                                                      Message 3199 - Posted 22 Jun 2006 22:58:29 UTC

                                                                                                        Thanks for the update on the home page, Adam. :)
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                                                                                                        Message 3201 - Posted 23 Jun 2006 8:34:53 UTC

                                                                                                          Last modified: 23 Jun 2006 8:35:20 UTC

                                                                                                          I heard that there\'s a black market for SZTAKI WUs somewhere in Les Landes

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                                                                                                          Message 3204 - Posted 23 Jun 2006 16:31:42 UTC - in response to Message 3201.

                                                                                                            Last modified: 23 Jun 2006 16:33:21 UTC

                                                                                                            I heard that there\'s a black market for SZTAKI WUs somewhere in Les Landes

                                                                                                            and what\'s their price ?
                                                                                                            Usually, what\'s rare is expensive


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                                                                                                            Message 3206 - Posted 23 Jun 2006 21:00:58 UTC

                                                                                                              Last modified: 23 Jun 2006 21:08:22 UTC

                                                                                                              who has the most wu\'s in his pocket
                                                                                                              answer

                                                                                                              I do not see very well who is at first.
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                                                                                                              Message 3208 - Posted 24 Jun 2006 16:52:07 UTC

                                                                                                                Last modified: 24 Jun 2006 17:01:46 UTC

                                                                                                                I\'ll take reassigned work any day, still have work pending.

                                                                                                                Results for Narwhal
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                                                                                                                Message 3209 - Posted 24 Jun 2006 18:13:04 UTC - in response to Message 3208.

                                                                                                                  I\'ll take reassigned work any day, still have work pending.

                                                                                                                  Results for Narwhal


                                                                                                                  Results no access


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                                                                                                                  Message 3210 - Posted 25 Jun 2006 1:07:34 UTC - in response to Message 3209.

                                                                                                                    I\'ll take reassigned work any day, still have work pending.

                                                                                                                    Results for Narwhal


                                                                                                                    Results no access



                                                                                                                    Sorry have to view each of my computers to see results

                                                                                                                    Computers
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                                                                                                                    Message 3218 - Posted 27 Jun 2006 9:15:52 UTC - in response to Message 3210.

                                                                                                                      Last modified: 27 Jun 2006 9:16:13 UTC

                                                                                                                      It\'s strange for me, that the last jobs were sent out more than a week ago and there are still a lot pending...that doesn\'t seem too performance-like...
                                                                                                                      I\'ll cancel those before I release the new WUs.
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                                                                                                                      Message 3220 - Posted 27 Jun 2006 10:22:46 UTC

                                                                                                                        Last modified: 27 Jun 2006 10:31:05 UTC

                                                                                                                        The validator isn\'t running, how could they leave the \"pending\" state then?


                                                                                                                        I got several expired ones lately and delivered them within a few minutes but without the validator they cannot do anything but stay pending.
                                                                                                                        ________

                                                                                                                        A large amount of pending ones have expiration date 28 Jun 2006 btw., they will be redelivered tomorrow and hopefully most of them will go to optimized clients.

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                                                                                                                        Message 3221 - Posted 27 Jun 2006 10:36:40 UTC - in response to Message 3220.

                                                                                                                          Ananas, that has nothing to do with the validator. I\'m speaking about results that hasn\'t arrived back in a week. Anyways, the validator is running again.
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                                                                                                                          Message 3222 - Posted 27 Jun 2006 10:51:19 UTC

                                                                                                                            Last modified: 27 Jun 2006 11:33:47 UTC

                                                                                                                            The number of pending ones on my boxes is decreasing slowly now.

                                                                                                                            It will not go to 0 as of those that haven\'t been returned (expiring tomorrow) but at least a few more finished results should go to the database now.
                                                                                                                            ____________

                                                                                                                            Somehow it seems that all pending ones have one or two missing results from the 28th, maybe there was a traffic jam on the server on that day?

                                                                                                                            edit : stupid me, with a timeout of 10 days, the traffic jam must have been on the 18th of course

                                                                                                                            Currently not all my boxes are able to connect either btw., even though I am running the same core client version on all of them.

                                                                                                                            Project Date Message --- 27.06.2006 12:31:11 Network error: couldn\'t connect to server SZTAKI Desktop Grid 27.06.2006 12:31:12 Scheduler request to http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/cgi-bin/scheduler failed: http error SZTAKI Desktop Grid 27.06.2006 12:31:12 No schedulers responded


                                                                                                                            It\'s that evil situation where the server receives the request (I can see that on the host list) but the client does not receive the reply.

                                                                                                                            A typical day for ghost WUs :-/

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                                                                                                                            Message 3224 - Posted 27 Jun 2006 15:40:27 UTC - in response to Message 3222.

                                                                                                                              I know I\'ve promised the new WUs for today, but there is some administration I\'ve to do (of course instead of my boss) so I will only be able to launch the new WUs tomorrow. Sorry, hope you understand...
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                                                                                                                              Message 3229 - Posted 27 Jun 2006 18:51:36 UTC

                                                                                                                                Of course I can only speak for myself - I think today would have not been a very good day to kill all pending WUs anyway because I see a lot of unreturned results expire tomorrow. So there\'s still quite a good chance to finish the current run.

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                                                                                                                                Message 3233 - Posted 27 Jun 2006 20:45:49 UTC

                                                                                                                                  Hi! I just wanted to say that Adam is quite skilled in releasing cryptical news. I don\'t like to be held in the dark. You should be more specific with your news, because all want to know the facts.
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                                                                                                                                  Message 3234 - Posted 27 Jun 2006 20:50:27 UTC

                                                                                                                                    Most of my pendings sent out again today.

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                                                                                                                                    Message 3237 - Posted 27 Jun 2006 23:42:14 UTC

                                                                                                                                      Give them all to me :-D

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                                                                                                                                      Message 3238 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 1:29:15 UTC - in response to Message 3218.

                                                                                                                                        It\'s strange for me, that the last jobs were sent out more than a week ago and there are still a lot pending...

                                                                                                                                        Could be from people who only occasionally connect to the web (those who are most keen to maintain a large cache). Maybe you can expect a lot of last-minute reporting as people find out you are in business again.
                                                                                                                                        ____________

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                                                                                                                                        Message 3243 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 15:12:27 UTC - in response to Message 3233.

                                                                                                                                          You should be more specific with your news, because all want to know the facts.


                                                                                                                                          What has happened yesterday is that I still had about an hour work before I could release the new WUs, when my boss came in and wanted me to write a report. I said I have to relaunch the server, but he said he\'s on a deadline and can\'t wait anymore. The fun stuff was that it\'s not my job to write reports. It\'s the job of my other boss, who was out of office...unfortunatelly.

                                                                                                                                          Now, maybe I\'m a bad news-writer, but tell me vonHalenbach, how to explain the above in one sentence not longer than 10 words? I can\'t, but I\'ll try harder next time, I promise ;-)
                                                                                                                                          ____________
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                                                                                                                                          Message 3244 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 16:10:36 UTC - in response to Message 3243.

                                                                                                                                            Pointy-haired boss
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                                                                                                                                            Message 3245 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 18:52:03 UTC - in response to Message 3243.

                                                                                                                                              .. how to explain the above in one sentence not longer than 10 words? I can\'t, but I\'ll try harder next time, I promise ;-)




                                                                                                                                              Won\'t make boss angry, boring crap to do - no WUs.


                                                                                                                                              Ok, ok - I cheated - \"won\'t\" are actually 2 words - but that\'s a rounding problem.

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                                                                                                                                              Message 3246 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 19:16:27 UTC

                                                                                                                                                I have several/many WU\'s completed and waiting to report but I am getting the message that project is down -
                                                                                                                                                So there are several others crunchers out there that are waiting for my crunched WU\'s to be reported.

                                                                                                                                                is this temporary or is it going to be fixed soon.

                                                                                                                                                Just asking.


                                                                                                                                                ____________

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                                                                                                                                                Message 3247 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 19:25:10 UTC - in response to Message 3246.

                                                                                                                                                  I have several/many WU\'s completed and waiting to report but I am getting the message that project is down -
                                                                                                                                                  So there are several others crunchers out there that are waiting for my crunched WU\'s to be reported.

                                                                                                                                                  is this temporary or is it going to be fixed soon.

                                                                                                                                                  Just asking.



                                                                                                                                                  You are not alone :(

                                                                                                                                                  B.

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                                                                                                                                                  Message 3248 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 19:26:12 UTC - in response to Message 3246.

                                                                                                                                                    Last modified: 28 Jun 2006 19:26:35 UTC

                                                                                                                                                    I have several/many WU\'s completed and waiting to report but I am getting the message that project is down -
                                                                                                                                                    So there are several others crunchers out there that are waiting for my crunched WU\'s to be reported.

                                                                                                                                                    is this temporary or is it going to be fixed soon.

                                                                                                                                                    Just asking.



                                                                                                                                                    I think its too late, all results are gone in my list and the older ones are cancelled and waiting for the new batch!

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                                                                                                                                                    Message 3249 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 20:21:16 UTC

                                                                                                                                                      Ad@m,

                                                                                                                                                      what timezone are you/Sztaki based?

                                                                                                                                                      Just can\'t wait for the new batch to come out?
                                                                                                                                                      ____________

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                                                                                                                                                      Message 3250 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 20:22:15 UTC

                                                                                                                                                        Same here - the magic 28th - one day more would have made quite a difference *sigh*

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                                                                                                                                                        Message 3251 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 21:09:14 UTC

                                                                                                                                                          How about a little WU song to end the day?

                                                                                                                                                          The WUs\'ll come out
                                                                                                                                                          Tomorrow
                                                                                                                                                          So ya gotta hang on
                                                                                                                                                          \'Til tomorrow
                                                                                                                                                          Come what may
                                                                                                                                                          Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
                                                                                                                                                          I love ya Tomorrow!
                                                                                                                                                          You\'re always
                                                                                                                                                          A day
                                                                                                                                                          A way!

                                                                                                                                                          (apologies to the musical \"Annie\")
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                                                                                                                                                          Message 3252 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 22:17:00 UTC - in response to Message 3251.

                                                                                                                                                            How about a little WU song to end the day?

                                                                                                                                                            The WUs\'ll come out
                                                                                                                                                            Tomorrow
                                                                                                                                                            So ya gotta hang on
                                                                                                                                                            \'Til tomorrow
                                                                                                                                                            Come what may
                                                                                                                                                            Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
                                                                                                                                                            I love ya Tomorrow!
                                                                                                                                                            You\'re always
                                                                                                                                                            A day
                                                                                                                                                            A way!

                                                                                                                                                            (apologies to the musical \"Annie\")


                                                                                                                                                            A very clever word to use \"tomorrow\"
                                                                                                                                                            Covers a mutitude of possibilities.
                                                                                                                                                            And of course \"tomorrow\" never comes.....:)

                                                                                                                                                            Bob

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                                                                                                                                                            Message 3253 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 23:11:22 UTC

                                                                                                                                                              Patience is the mother of all the virtues. ;)
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                                                                                                                                                              Message 3254 - Posted 28 Jun 2006 23:17:18 UTC - in response to Message 3253.

                                                                                                                                                                Patience is the mother of all the virtues. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                Indeed! Don\'t worry, Adam, we all understand that taking longer than expected can take longer than expected.
                                                                                                                                                                ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                Message 3255 - Posted 29 Jun 2006 0:13:59 UTC - in response to Message 3253.

                                                                                                                                                                  Patience is the mother of all the virtues. ;)


                                                                                                                                                                  And it has payed off :)

                                                                                                                                                                  I have Wu\'s again @ 0015gmt

                                                                                                                                                                  Woo WOO plenty of work once more

                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you

                                                                                                                                                                  Bob

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                                                                                                                                                                  Message 3256 - Posted 29 Jun 2006 0:15:47 UTC - in response to Message 3254.

                                                                                                                                                                    David and everyone else,
                                                                                                                                                                    tomorrow is here! :-) You have to know though, that we\'re still working on the optimization of the algorithm. We\'ve made the mathematicians to sit down together and crawl through the code together, because they understand math well, but have little idea of optimization...
                                                                                                                                                                    ...so right now the algorithm is only optimized by compiler (although in a pretty heavy sense) and in a week we\'ll release a new version which is completly redesigned with optimized performance taken in full account.

                                                                                                                                                                    Anyways, I\'m over my exams now, so things will get smoother...

                                                                                                                                                                    Yet another thing is that we\'ve finished the development (half year) of an API designed to make the life of boinc-application developers easier. This API will also help me in a week or 2, which will hopefully also cause things to be smoother here...

                                                                                                                                                                    So, everyone, thanks for all the patience, I really was in the need of it...
                                                                                                                                                                    ____________
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                                                                                                                                                                    Message 3257 - Posted 29 Jun 2006 0:23:46 UTC - in response to Message 3256.

                                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 29 Jun 2006 0:26:21 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                      Ehm, I\'m a bit tired. I\'ve released the debug version on windows...correcting in a minute. I knew I should skip ver#13...I hate bad numbers ;-)
                                                                                                                                                                      ____________
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                                                                                                                                                                      Message 3258 - Posted 29 Jun 2006 0:57:39 UTC - in response to Message 3243.

                                                                                                                                                                        You should be more specific with your news, because all want to know the facts.


                                                                                                                                                                        What has happened yesterday is that I still had about an hour work before I could release the new WUs, when my boss came in and wanted me to write a report. I said I have to relaunch the server, but he said he\'s on a deadline and can\'t wait anymore. The fun stuff was that it\'s not my job to write reports. It\'s the job of my other boss, who was out of the office...unfortunately.

                                                                                                                                                                        Now, maybe I\'m a bad news-writer, but tell me vonHalenbach, how to explain the above in one sentence not longer than 10 words? I can\'t, but I\'ll try harder next time, I promise ;-)


                                                                                                                                                                        Oh. Sorry! I didn\'t know that, and i understand now. I don\'t know how the Sztaki Desktop Grid is funded(financed). I don\'t know where you earn your money. I really didn\'t know that your boss is so uniterested in the project that he didn\'t let you go to the Serverroom for about half an hour to start the server, that the voluntering people who like to help the project for free can crunch as they like. Thank you for that information. I think i understand you now much better than before.

                                                                                                                                                                        Nice greetings from Germany
                                                                                                                                                                        vonHalenbach
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                                                                                                                                                                        Message 3263 - Posted 29 Jun 2006 2:09:40 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 29 Jun 2006 7:22:50 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                          Adam,
                                                                                                                                                                          look at this beta CC (5.5.4)

                                                                                                                                                                          it\'s running with my Athlon64 (core Venice)

                                                                                                                                                                          it can recognize processor capabilities (note it forgot SSE3)





                                                                                                                                                                          ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                          Message 3267 - Posted 29 Jun 2006 8:05:52 UTC - in response to Message 3263.

                                                                                                                                                                            look at this beta CC (5.5.4)
                                                                                                                                                                            it can recognize processor capabilities (note it forgot SSE3)
                                                                                                                                                                            And it doesn\'t recognize SSE4 on Conroe...not that important thou.
                                                                                                                                                                            I consider regoznizing 32 vs. 64-bit OS more important than SSE4.
                                                                                                                                                                            (BoincStudio thanks to cooperation with Doc is now able to recognize SSE4)

                                                                                                                                                                            WU generator stopped, no WUs for Win...
                                                                                                                                                                            ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                            Message 3334 - Posted 4 Jul 2006 20:03:44 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                              from the server page:

                                                                                                                                                                              Server State
                                                                                                                                                                              Program Host Status
                                                                                                                                                                              Webpage szdg Running
                                                                                                                                                                              Scheduler szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                              Assimilator / WU generator szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                              Feeder szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                              File deleter szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                              Transitioner szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                              Validator for Num-SysSearch szdg Stopped

                                                                                                                                                                              Database Status
                                                                                                                                                                              Status Approximate # of WUs
                                                                                                                                                                              Ready to send 1
                                                                                                                                                                              In progress 1


                                                                                                                                                                              I guess things are getting ready for the new WUs
                                                                                                                                                                              ::fingers crossed::

                                                                                                                                                                              ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                              Message 3335 - Posted 4 Jul 2006 20:11:30 UTC - in response to Message 3334.

                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 4 Jul 2006 20:12:03 UTC


                                                                                                                                                                                I guess things are getting ready for the new WUs
                                                                                                                                                                                ::fingers crossed::


                                                                                                                                                                                oh!! i do hope so..


                                                                                                                                                                                B.

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                                                                                                                                                                                Greetings from Manchester U.K.




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                                                                                                                                                                                Message 3336 - Posted 4 Jul 2006 21:38:21 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 4 Jul 2006 21:51:10 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                  I\'m dreaming...

                                                                                                                                                                                  i see now :

                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #1 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #2 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #3 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #4 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #5 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #6 szdg Stopped

                                                                                                                                                                                  6

                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 3337 - Posted 4 Jul 2006 21:54:53 UTC - in response to Message 3336.

                                                                                                                                                                                    I\'m dreaming...

                                                                                                                                                                                    i see now :

                                                                                                                                                                                    Assimilator / WU generator #1 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                    Assimilator / WU generator #2 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                    Assimilator / WU generator #3 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                    Assimilator / WU generator #4 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                    Assimilator / WU generator #5 szdg Stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                    Assimilator / WU generator #6 szdg Stopped

                                                                                                                                                                                    6


                                                                                                                                                                                    I am dreaming to but we are wating !
                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 3338 - Posted 4 Jul 2006 22:02:42 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                      Also noticed this on the application page:
                                                                                                                                                                                      NumSys Search
                                                                                                                                                                                      Platform Current version Installed
                                                                                                                                                                                      Linux/x86 2.00 4 Jul 2006 18:36:02 UTC
                                                                                                                                                                                      Windows/x86 2.00 4 Jul 2006 18:36:02 UTC
                                                                                                                                                                                      Macintosh OS/X 2.00 4 Jul 2006 18:36:02 UTC


                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 3339 - Posted 4 Jul 2006 22:06:48 UTC - in response to Message 3338.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Also noticed this on the application page:
                                                                                                                                                                                        NumSys Search
                                                                                                                                                                                        Platform Current version Installed
                                                                                                                                                                                        Linux/x86 2.00 4 Jul 2006 18:36:02 UTC
                                                                                                                                                                                        Windows/x86 2.00 4 Jul 2006 18:36:02 UTC
                                                                                                                                                                                        Macintosh OS/X 2.00 4 Jul 2006 18:36:02 UTC


                                                                                                                                                                                        I can perhaps open a new thread for the new version of the application ! ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 3342 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 15:27:43 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                          Database Status
                                                                                                                                                                                          Status Approximate # of WUs
                                                                                                                                                                                          Ready to send 4
                                                                                                                                                                                          In progress 172


                                                                                                                                                                                          Looks like a little backslide!
                                                                                                                                                                                          Still hopeing for a quick return of volumes of WUs.


                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________

                                                                                                                                                                                          [B@H] Ray
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                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 3343 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 16:03:38 UTC - in response to Message 3342.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Database Status
                                                                                                                                                                                            Status Approximate # of WUs
                                                                                                                                                                                            Ready to send 4
                                                                                                                                                                                            In progress 172


                                                                                                                                                                                            Looks like a little backslide!
                                                                                                                                                                                            Still hopeing for a quick return of volumes of WUs.


                                                                                                                                                                                            Looks like that, but they sent some new work out. I just got 6 new WU\'s, all og them were just assigned to 3 systems each.

                                                                                                                                                                                            They look quite a bit longer than the past ones, one is at 0:10:55 and only 0.18% complete, ones like this will give there server a brake from systems always looking for more.
                                                                                                                                                                                            ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 3344 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 16:04:28 UTC - in response to Message 3342.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Last modified: 5 Jul 2006 16:05:30 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                              error, dulpicated
                                                                                                                                                                                              ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 3348 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 18:33:23 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                My first WU is really long: 0.35% complete after 1 hour 22 minutes! At this pace it will take way more than 300 hours to complete. This is worse than QMC! A four day deadline will be hard to meet...
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                                                                                                                                                                                                [B@H] Ray
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                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 3349 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 18:46:19 UTC - in response to Message 3348.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  My first WU is really long: 0.35% complete after 1 hour 22 minutes! At this pace it will take way more than 300 hours to complete. This is worse than QMC! A four day deadline will be hard to meet...


                                                                                                                                                                                                  Deadline is 4 Days, 4 Hrs = 100 Hours.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  The one that I have running looks like a run time of 110 hours, if it keeps up this was I will have to abort all 6 that I recieved rather than just 5 of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  How do they expect up to finish 6 of these in 100 hours? I have no idea how that can on done on a single cpu with no HT or duel core.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 3350 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 18:49:48 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I aborted the first one. The second unit seems much faster, and might just be finished in time. But I think I have to suspend both Einstein and Rosetta...

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 3351 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 19:12:28 UTC - in response to Message 3349.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 5 Jul 2006 19:23:43 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                      My first WU is really long: 0.35% complete after 1 hour 22 minutes! At this pace it will take way more than 300 hours to complete. This is worse than QMC! A four day deadline will be hard to meet...


                                                                                                                                                                                                      Deadline is 4 Days, 4 Hrs = 100 Hours.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      The one that I have running looks like a run time of 110 hours, if it keeps up this was I will have to abort all 6 that I recieved rather than just 5 of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      How do they expect up to finish 6 of these in 100 hours? I have no idea how that can on done on a single cpu with no HT or duel core.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I haven\'t got any yet, but I would hazard a guess that this is because they are quite a bit larger than the previous ones, and the BOINC Duration Correction Factor takes a while to adjust to such things. If this is the case, the total run time will start to adjust downwards noticeably after 10% or so of the new WUs has been crunched, and settle at about the correct value over time. If you look at this value in your client_state.xml file you will probably see it rather less than 1, possibly a lot less if you were using the Akos optimization previously. I\'m going to reset mine to 1.0 now before I get any units to try and give it a more accurate start once I get some. Mike
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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 3352 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 19:40:35 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Last modified: 5 Jul 2006 19:43:30 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                        That was not fair giving HomeGnome a - rateing just for saying how long it looks like these will take. I put a + in to bring it back to 0.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I aborted my unit when it took 2 hours to get to 1% and estimated time going up for the unit. Good luck to who ever gets it next.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 3355 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 20:26:06 UTC - in response to Message 3352.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 5 Jul 2006 20:42:48 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                          That was not fair giving HomeGnome a - rateing just for saying how long it looks like these will take. I put a + in to bring it back to 0.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I aborted my unit when it took 2 hours to get to 1% and estimated time going up for the unit. Good luck to who ever gets it next.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          About the - rating, i saw.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Seems that you, HomeGnome and MRAO are \"our\" winners. [joke]
                                                                                                                                                                                                          If the phantom minusers from Seti@Home are coming here to play with rating and people, so i tell you : pretty childish and stupid.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 3356 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 20:42:28 UTC - in response to Message 3351.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            My first WU is really long: 0.35% complete after 1 hour 22 minutes! At this pace it will take way more than 300 hours to complete. This is worse than QMC! A four day deadline will be hard to meet...


                                                                                                                                                                                                            Deadline is 4 Days, 4 Hrs = 100 Hours.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            The one that I have running looks like a run time of 110 hours, if it keeps up this was I will have to abort all 6 that I recieved rather than just 5 of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            How do they expect up to finish 6 of these in 100 hours? I have no idea how that can on done on a single cpu with no HT or duel core.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I haven\'t got any yet, but I would hazard a guess that this is because they are quite a bit larger than the previous ones, and the BOINC Duration Correction Factor takes a while to adjust to such things. If this is the case, the total run time will start to adjust downwards noticeably after 10% or so of the new WUs has been crunched, and settle at about the correct value over time. If you look at this value in your client_state.xml file you will probably see it rather less than 1, possibly a lot less if you were using the Akos optimization previously. I\'m going to reset mine to 1.0 now before I get any units to try and give it a more accurate start once I get some. Mike


                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                            The times that we were talking about were from computing the finish time from the percent of work that we had done on those units, not the correction factor. I use an older BOINC which said 1.25 hours from what it got from the program, with calculateing it from the time used and percent complete it was over 110 hours.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            At least from these six units I can see how long others took when they return them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Here is a link to the six new units that I recieved today. LINK TO UNITS

                                                                                                                                                                                                            These are all using the new Search 2.00 application.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ray
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                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 3357 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 21:02:27 UTC - in response to Message 3356.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Last modified: 5 Jul 2006 21:04:56 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                              ---------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Here is a link to the six new units that I recieved today. LINK TO UNITS

                                                                                                                                                                                                              These are all using the new Search 2.00 application.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Only you have access
                                                                                                                                                                                                              The best is to use this other link :
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Link


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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 3358 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 21:14:15 UTC - in response to Message 3356.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                The times that we were talking about were from computing the finish time from the percent of work that we had done on those units, not the correction factor. I use an older BOINC which said 1.25 hours from what it got from the program, with calculateing it from the time used and percent complete it was over 110 hours.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                It seems to me that Mike\'s answer was addressing the question of why your system downloaded six WUs, not why they\'re so big in the first place.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I\'ve had nothing but \"project is down\" messages for a couple of days, and whenever I check the Server Status page everything shows red except for the website. If the new WUs do turn out to be much longer than the previous ones, it\'s probably advisable to reduce cache-time to a minimum before reconnecting. We went through this once before, in March IIRC: one host of mine, full of \'self-confidence\' after crunching some extremely short WUs, downloaded about three hundred long ones of which it could only return a handful before deadline. I manually aborted something like 250 of them so they could get resent ASAP to someone who could handle them ... :(
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 3360 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 22:10:35 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 5 Jul 2006 22:21:33 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #1 szdg Running
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #2 szdg Running
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #3 szdg Running
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #4 szdg Running
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #5 szdg Running
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #6 szdg Running
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Assimilator / WU generator #7 szdg Stopped

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and a new wu generator also : #7 (!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  edit :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #7 is running
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 3361 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 22:22:04 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My other system downloaded 16 of them (1 day cache), estimated time on each is 1:31:55. The first one ran for 0:47:53 so far and still at 0.00% these have the same 100 hour deadlines.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I was not here in March when they had the long ones before, on the ones that took 110 to 300 hours did people get credit when they were turned in after the 100 hour deadline? Rosetta will allow credit like that, and always at CPDN but otherr projects do not, don\'t know about SZTAKI.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ray
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 3362 - Posted 5 Jul 2006 22:31:38 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 5 Jul 2006 23:16:11 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      05/07/2006 23:28:21|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: No work sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      05/07/2006 23:28:21|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: (there was work but it was committed to other platforms)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      this what i keep gettin :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now working fine :)


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings from Manchester U.K.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 3375 - Posted 6 Jul 2006 2:46:32 UTC - in response to Message 3362.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        05/07/2006 23:28:21|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: No work sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        05/07/2006 23:28:21|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: (there was work but it was committed to other platforms)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        this what i keep gettin :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I see all the servers are green now, but all I get is variations on the same theme:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Wed Jul 5 20:11:12 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Sending scheduler request to http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/cgi-bin/scheduler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Wed Jul 5 20:11:12 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Reason: To fetch work
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Wed Jul 5 20:11:12 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Requesting 86400 seconds of new work
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Wed Jul 5 20:11:17 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Scheduler request succeeded
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Wed Jul 5 20:11:17 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: No work sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Wed Jul 5 20:11:17 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: (there was work but it was committed to other platforms)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Wed Jul 5 20:11:17 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|No work from project


                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That\'s not just on my Macs, either; a Celeron/Win98 system is doing exactly the same. What platforms has the work been committed to? WinNT/XP only? Or does it need a \'real\' Intel CPU, or an AMD perhaps?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 3377 - Posted 6 Jul 2006 4:34:53 UTC - in response to Message 3375.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 6 Jul 2006 4:36:51 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          05/07/2006 23:28:21|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: No work sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          05/07/2006 23:28:21|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: (there was work but it was committed to other platforms)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          this what i keep gettin :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I see all the servers are green now, but all I get is variations on the same theme:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wed Jul 5 20:11:12 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Sending scheduler request to http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/cgi-bin/scheduler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wed Jul 5 20:11:12 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Reason: To fetch work
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wed Jul 5 20:11:12 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Requesting 86400 seconds of new work
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wed Jul 5 20:11:17 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Scheduler request succeeded
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wed Jul 5 20:11:17 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: No work sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wed Jul 5 20:11:17 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: (there was work but it was committed to other platforms)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wed Jul 5 20:11:17 2006|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|No work from project


                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That\'s not just on my Macs, either; a Celeron/Win98 system is doing exactly the same. What platforms has the work been committed to? WinNT/XP only? Or does it need a \'real\' Intel CPU, or an AMD perhaps?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I\'m running Amd cpu\'s (on Win98SE and Win2k) and i \'m getting the same message.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I see also \"Ready to send 7 \".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 3403 - Posted 6 Jul 2006 22:39:07 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Last modified: 6 Jul 2006 23:11:56 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Most of the errors seems to be my fault. Sorry! I\'ve set the max filesize too low. You can cancel all WUs and I\'ll recreate them...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyways, the application has been tested and is working as expected. Most of the problems are server-side ones, so we can call this a test if you want, but there is no need for anonim platform and etc. Because as I\'ve said this time the client app has been tested well, now the server is what needs a little more help...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for the patience...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Edit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Error -131 is the file too big error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think that would be correct to grant credits for the computed but failed to upload WUs, am I?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 3412 - Posted 7 Jul 2006 7:21:51 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for keeping us updated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It has also answered some of my questions :-)
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 3417 - Posted 7 Jul 2006 9:59:02 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Adam. Thank you for the new information. It is not even half annoying because you keep us informed. I think it is a sign of strongness to say: \"Im sorry i made a mistake.\" Everybody makes sometimes a mistake. It is like someone in the other thread said: \"It is in the human nature to make a mistake.\" Not everyone is able (strong enough) to say that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nice Greetings
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                vonHalenbach
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 3418 - Posted 7 Jul 2006 12:18:32 UTC - in response to Message 3403.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 7 Jul 2006 12:20:30 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Most of the errors seems to be my fault. Sorry! I\'ve set the max filesize too low. You can cancel all WUs and I\'ll recreate them...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  thanks for the info :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  would it be possible to mark \"bad\" WUs as \"canceled\" so they\'re not redistributed (like this one was) and users know exactly which ones are bad, and therefore which ones are safe to cancel

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  also prehaps it\'s time for a new blog page again, as this one has quickly grown in size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Want to search the BOINC Wiki, BOINCstats, or various BOINC forums from within firefox? Try the BOINC related Firefox Search Plugins

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 3420 - Posted 7 Jul 2006 13:24:07 UTC - in response to Message 3403.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Error -131 is the file too big error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think that would be correct to grant credits for the computed but failed to upload WUs, am I?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That would be great and greatly appreciated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 3424 - Posted 8 Jul 2006 1:27:45 UTC - in response to Message 3420.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 8 Jul 2006 1:32:22 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If the computers that are still running have good wu\'s, why not let them finish normally. Send all the wu\'s back out, let us crunch them, and let the server deal with the duplicates (i.e., award credits or not.) I\'m more interested in getting wu\'s to work on and not credits, so I\'m willing to consider the previous work as a test run. Just for Grins!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 3426 - Posted 8 Jul 2006 6:45:41 UTC - in response to Message 3424.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Most of the WUs have a deadline on sunday, so I\'ll let them run on the weekend and we\'ll restart on monday.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 3437 - Posted 10 Jul 2006 10:00:55 UTC - in response to Message 3420.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That would be great and greatly appreciated.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I\'ve granted all the credits for everyone! Thaks for keeping with us, we\'ll restart in the afternoon...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you like BOINC, you may also find CaretCursor to be appealing.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 3438 - Posted 10 Jul 2006 21:21:10 UTC - in response to Message 3437.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Last modified: 10 Jul 2006 21:22:06 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That would be great and greatly appreciated.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I\'ve granted all the credits for everyone! Thaks for keeping with us, we\'ll restart in the afternoon...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Adam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you for ganting credit for the bad units, that is appreciated by many wirking on this.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ray
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 3467 - Posted 12 Jul 2006 5:44:15 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Last modified: 12 Jul 2006 10:36:07 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Power outage ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Seems that the Web Site was down during several hours

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              edit : yesterday, in the evening
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 3476 - Posted 12 Jul 2006 16:37:47 UTC - in response to Message 3467.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 12 Jul 2006 16:42:11 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Power outage ?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                No, the machine has run out of space and if there is no space on the disk boinc crashes, pretty badly...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Edit: we\'ve installed some new 200GBs, hope it will last for sometimes...

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 3488 - Posted 13 Jul 2006 16:43:17 UTC - in response to Message 3476.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 13 Jul 2006 16:45:36 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Power outage ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  No, the machine has run out of space and if there is no space on the disk boinc crashes, pretty badly...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Edit: we\'ve installed some new 200GBs, hope it will last for sometimes...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  just out of interest, how much space does a project use when a) first set-up, and b) on average after it\'s been running for a while? (taking into account daemons, logs, science data etc)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  if it depends on the project (i imagine BURP and CPDN use more than most) then how much in the way of storage does SZTAKI need/use?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 3499 - Posted 13 Jul 2006 23:42:03 UTC - in response to Message 3488.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    just out of interest, how much space does a project use when a) first set-up,


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    not much, about 100MB (without any input, WUs, database is empty)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and b) on average after it\'s been running for a while? (taking into account daemons, logs, science data etc)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    about 50GB project data + input data (way more than 200GB)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    if it depends on the project (i imagine BURP and CPDN use more than most) then how much in the way of storage does SZTAKI need/use?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don\'t really get the meaning of this question, but if you\'re interested in how many storage does the input data need, than it\'s well...more than 1 TB, but we try to only generate ~200 GB at a given time

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 3524 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 14:44:50 UTC - in response to Message 3499.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 14 Jul 2006 14:46:34 UTC


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      just out of interest, how much space does a project use when a) first set-up,


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      not much, about 100MB (without any input, WUs, database is empty)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and b) on average after it\'s been running for a while? (taking into account daemons, logs, science data etc)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      about 50GB project data + input data (way more than 200GB)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      thanks, interesting answers


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      if it depends on the project (i imagine BURP and CPDN use more than most) then how much in the way of storage does SZTAKI need/use?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don\'t really get the meaning of this question, but if you\'re interested in how many storage does the input data need, than it\'s well...more than 1 TB, but we try to only generate ~200 GB at a given time

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      well, the answers to the above questions for storage requirements could have been \"it depends on the project\" (as to how much data they have/need)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i assumed projects like CPDN and BURP have to store more data; BURP with it\'s resultant video files and raw images, and CPDN with the huge result files for climate models. So if it did depend on the project, i was asking how much SZTAKI used

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but prehaps all projects are similar in their data storage requirements, it just seemed logical that projects that have large up and downloads would require more storage, but i don\'t run a project, so i honestly don\'t know and can\'t comment lol

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but anyway, thanks for the answers :)
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 3530 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 15:14:17 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Last modified: 14 Jul 2006 15:15:25 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        One important thing that you have to spent some thought on, when you plan your own BOINC project :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Projects with lots of tiny work units have a really hard fight with some file system restrictions. The file system becomes sluggish very quick, when a certain number of inodes exist in the upload directories.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Even if you delete files, the directory handling does not return to its previous speed, you have to delete and re-create the directory in order to get that fixed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Even with one subdirectory for each day, you can easily get to a limit where the filesystem becomes unresponsive. Even the maximum number of inodes for a file system can be reached, afaik. there is no way to increase this maximum later, once the fs has been created.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I would rather want to handle a project with large long running WUs than one with zillions of tiny short running WUs. Ballancing speed and space isn\'t easy for a project like SZTAKI.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lee Carre
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 3531 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 15:32:39 UTC - in response to Message 3530.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 14 Jul 2006 15:35:44 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Projects with lots of tiny work units have a really hard fight with some file system restrictions. The file system becomes sluggish very quick, when a certain number of inodes exist in the upload directories.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [snip]

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a seperate issue, but good points, is there a recomended file-system?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          do you know why the performance increases only if you re-create the directory, is this to do with the record table (allocation table) becomming poluted?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 3532 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 15:45:59 UTC - in response to Message 3531.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Last modified: 14 Jul 2006 15:52:26 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ... is there a recomended file-system?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I always take what is there, no idea if it\'s good or bad *g


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            do you know why the performance increases only if you re-create the directory, is this to do with the record table (allocation table) becomming poluted?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On the *ix file systems I have seen so far, the directory itself is something like a structured file that has to be scanned. Unfortunately it has no fixed record length but you have to skip through it from record to record till you find the inode link entry you need. Fixed record length would make it faster but some FS\'s allow up to 64k for each filename so the directories would become huge with a fixed length.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Afaik. entries that are not used anymore receive a mark for invalidate, not so much different from FAT directory entries or old dBase files - but there is no garbage collection for them like the dBase \"pack\" command.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So even if you have deleted a lot of files, it still needs to walk through their (invalidated) entries in order to find what you are looking for.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 3534 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 18:37:10 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Basicly BOINC itself is a model suitable for data processing. If you look around the projects there is hardly any that don\'t use input files (or just imitate them)...so I would say a BOINC project nearly always involves big storage...
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 3536 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 18:44:04 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I\'ve just created a new topic with a work-around for some of the long running WUs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My take on the problem is this:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If the in.txt_xxxxx file for the WU contains only one array description, the process hangs and does not update the 0.000% field. This is possibly a one-off indexing problem in the algorithm.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 3537 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 18:55:22 UTC - in response to Message 3534.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I\'ve updated the deadlines to approximately 1 month. This applies to all WUs! The core client may not notice this, but the server will hopefully accept the WUs even if the core client says it\'s over deadline.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Have a nice weekend...

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 3539 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 19:01:47 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The Servers are OFF !
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 3540 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 19:07:01 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Adam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I see you have an animated jpg for your avator.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Would you know how to convert this GIF to jpg and still have the animation?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have never seen an animated jpg except for yours before. Maby that is reserved for the Admin.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ray
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 3542 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 19:17:04 UTC - in response to Message 3539.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The Servers are OFF !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ON (now) ;)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 3545 - Posted 14 Jul 2006 23:48:26 UTC - in response to Message 3537.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 14 Jul 2006 23:49:09 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I\'ve updated the deadlines to approximately 1 month. This applies to all WUs! The core client may not notice this, but the server will hopefully accept the WUs even if the core client says it\'s over deadline.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Excellent! Personally, I don\'t care how long they take--as long as the work isn\'t wasted by missing the deadline. But this should also make things easier for the BOINC scheduler to maintain round-robin processing without invoking EDF mode.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Have a nice weekend...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You too!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 3551 - Posted 15 Jul 2006 5:51:02 UTC - in response to Message 3540.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Last modified: 15 Jul 2006 6:12:21 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I see you have an animated jpg for your avator.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Would you know how to convert this GIF to jpg and still have the animation?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think the JPG doesn\'t have animation possibilities, the MJPEG is the nearest format.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 3554 - Posted 15 Jul 2006 6:56:07 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Last modified: 15 Jul 2006 7:06:14 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It is a GIF with a JPG filename extension, nothing converted. MNG can do animations too btw. but I doubt that BOINC would allow to upload those.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Lee Carre
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 3555 - Posted 15 Jul 2006 15:41:27 UTC - in response to Message 3532.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 15 Jul 2006 15:43:38 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                do you know why the performance increases only if you re-create the directory, is this to do with the record table (allocation table) becomming poluted?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                On the *ix file systems I have seen so far, the directory itself is something like a structured file that has to be scanned. [snip]

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Afaik. entries that are not used anymore receive a mark for invalidate, not so much different from FAT directory entries or old dBase files - but there is no garbage collection for them like the dBase \"pack\" command.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So even if you have deleted a lot of files, it still needs to walk through their (invalidated) entries in order to find what you are looking for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks for then info :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                sounds like quite a major over-sight, not having a delete function lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the joys of computer technology ;)
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 3593 - Posted 18 Jul 2006 0:33:43 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 18 Jul 2006 0:37:00 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Adam,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  A birthday, a new application, so a new beginning, perhaps a page 6 now ? :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 3640 - Posted 25 Jul 2006 18:48:19 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Last modified: 25 Jul 2006 19:28:28 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Adam, is it possible to get any information about what\'s happening ?











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To do short, these smilies are perhaps what your users are thinking.


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Profile [B^S] thierry@home
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 3645 - Posted 25 Jul 2006 22:38:57 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That\'s quite true....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I like the fourth and the fifth one\'s ;-)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 3652 - Posted 26 Jul 2006 12:15:47 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        New page has been opened...
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