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Profile groucho
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Message 464 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 2:29:50 UTC

    Why me? I mean, why the machine asking for 16 credits doesn't get any in this wu:

    <a href="http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=342">http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=342</a>

    G

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    John McLeod VII
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    Message 466 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 2:36:07 UTC

      It looks like yours was not valid. Just my guess based on the position of things on the results page and the the difference in the spot that I believe to be "validate state".
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      Message 467 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 2:38:58 UTC

        ok, thanks...

        It's funny how we are all trying to guess what means what in hungarian. :-)

        G

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        Message 480 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 15:51:15 UTC

          IMHO you should get credits for your result. The words are the same as in the row of one who gets credits:
          Vége Sikeres Befejeződött 27,054.63 50.86 25.70
          Vége Sikeres Befejeződött 14,537.78 16.21 0.00

          I have the same problem with these WUs:
          http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=913
          http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=846
          http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=686
          http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=561
          http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=421

          This should be corrected.
          BTW: why the credits are not given the same way as i. e. SETI? The middle of the 'claimed credit' of the first three results is given to all. Quite easy :-)
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          Message 483 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 16:32:22 UTC

            But if you drill down into the results page, near the bottom, there is an indicator of whether it passed the validator or not. If it does not pass the validator, there is no credit. This is to stop cheaters and keep overclockers from doing too much overclocking.
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            Message 484 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 16:36:43 UTC

              Are you saying that I am a cheater???
              I'll be waiting outside your house for a duel any day you want.

              By the way, what does overclocking means?

              Profile Skip Da Shu
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              Message 486 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 17:26:12 UTC

                <i>Are you saying that I am a cheater??? </i>

                I do not think he is saying that at all.

                <i>By the way, what does overclocking means?</i>

                To run the CPU at a speed faster than it is certified for by the factory. The cpu has a "clock" that controls it's speed. So to speed it up is often called "over" "clocking". In this case the word "over" is used to mean something closer to "more than normal" or "above normal" or "extra".
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                Message 487 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 17:36:19 UTC

                  &gt; ... This is to stop cheaters and keep overclockers
                  &gt; from doing too much overclocking.

                  All my computers running the speed they are designed for.
                  So one possibility left?
                  For me I'm sure not to cheat. Can you tell me how to do that? ;-)

                  There MUST be another explanation.


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                  Message 491 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 18:45:05 UTC

                    All the examples here have the same validation problems like the ones in that thread:
                    http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/forum_thread.php?id=38

                    If a linux client is validated first then the windows clients get no credit.
                    If a windows client gets credits first then the linux clients get none.

                    Click the hostnumbers(Számítógép) and check it.
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                    Profile Brian Stansbury
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                    Message 494 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 18:55:01 UTC

                      <i>Why me? I mean, why the machine asking for 16 credits doesn't get any in this wu:

                      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=342

                      G
                      </i>

                      This has more to do with the OS. You are using Linux and Skip and JAKA24 are using MS XP. There have been several posts about this same issue. It is something Adam and Atilla need to fix, whether all are validated or send the same WU to just Linux boxes or same WU to just Windows boxes. It is how each OS handles the math instructions.
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                      Message 495 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 19:10:37 UTC

                        NO, I am not accusing anyone of cheating in BOINC. This was a problem in S@H, and the validation of WUs is a major part of the fix. However, this leads to validation errors (where the validator is a bit too strict). Different machines can get slightly different answers for the same floating point calculation even they both support the same standard. This difference in the last digit of the first calculation can make a fairly large difference in the final calculation. The causes of this start with different machine architectures, and continue through overheating, and overclocking among other possible causes.

                        BTW when was the last time that you chased the dust bunnies out of your machine(s)?
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                        Nasicus
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                        Message 498 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 19:25:26 UTC

                          This thread (http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/forum_thread.php?id=35) with this comment:
                          &gt; Problem 2:
                          &gt; On the previous run (10 Dim) Sztaki was validating WUs 1 on 1 and
                          &gt; automatically granting Claimed Credit to valid WUs. That was great.
                          &gt; On this new run (11 Dim) WUs are validated in groups of 5, requiring 4 to
                          &gt; grant credit and granting credit to all based on the credit claimed by the
                          &gt; earliest valid WU returned. This is far from great.

                          made me think that one possibility to 'cheat' could be: wait until you can see the value of granted credit for that WU and then decide whether to crunch or abort that WU. Waste of time but possible.

                          So maybe this is another reason for Adam to change the manner how credits are granted.
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                          Message 502 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 20:34:43 UTC

                            Same thing here:
                            http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=854

                            There are different OS systems, this is the validator problem...curious!

                            Got 0 credits (3 users with Windows too) but only one with Mac got some.
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                            Message 504 - Posted 3 Aug 2005 21:21:17 UTC

                              <i>NO, I am not accusing anyone of cheating in BOINC.</i>

                              Go on John, say I am doing it. ;)
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                              Message 547 - Posted 5 Aug 2005 21:21:18 UTC

                                Maybe the problem is with the redundancy. We have set our master program to generate 5 WUs for each work and to wait till 2 matching arrive back. Maybe yours was a 3rd arriving back, but the 2 before have already received the credits and that's why you haven't got any. I'll check it seriously.
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                                Message 561 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 7:15:56 UTC

                                  @Adam:
                                  Why you are not switching back to generate 1 WU for each work, this is much faster and we can finish all WUs in lesser time and all are happy to get the credit for their work?
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                                  Message 568 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 18:50:01 UTC

                                    This is a issue with the boinc platform. Most of the other projects match wu with operating system i think. If you are running an operating systen different than the first completed wu thats given credit and you are interested in credit, you might as well dump the wu cause you ain't getting any credit for it.
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                                    Message 573 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 19:16:53 UTC

                                      Up till last week even me thought that redundant computing is just a waste of time, 'cause every participant is a loyal to the project. But I was wrong. Last week I've found a WU that has arrived back with error, and when I checked the stderr log of it...it turned out that it was another application, not ours. Wow! So bad boys are in town...and we fight them with redundancy!

                                      Of course, as this specific WU returned error, no credits have been granted for it, but if this has happened, who can tell me, what worse things are happening with our poor WUs... :)

                                      If you can convince me, that it is safe to run the project with no redundancy, maybe we can turn it off, until than: it STAYS ON! AND STOP HACKING OUR APP AND WUs!
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                                      Message 575 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 20:11:28 UTC

                                        Hi

                                        @Adam

                                        I am a believer in redundancy but the question is how much. If you are validating on 2 results do you really need to send out 5 work units? It seams most projects have settled on 3 units agreeing to validate and sending out 4 units initially as a safety. The science behind your project may have other needs. but if you can the lower the redundancy, that achieves the needs of the science, more work will be done by the hosts available to you.
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                                        Message 576 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 20:13:16 UTC

                                          Yes, make it so and we have no problems with the validator (0 credits of different OS) but pls check also all zero credits in database and granted these and you will stay alive the project and winning more users!
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                                          Message 577 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 21:55:54 UTC

                                            Adam was it the crunched with the Blender.exe ?
                                            I ended up crunching a few seti units with the blender.exe ( BURP was out of work for the night and figured it would help out the other projects ) other people have reported the blender.exe crunching some LHC,Predictor units.
                                            Janus is aware of the issue and i believe it is being worked on.


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                                            Message 578 - Posted 6 Aug 2005 23:40:35 UTC

                                              Thats what I was thinking also Neil, BURP taking over the Projects you are attached to is a known BUG. Anymore I just keep BURP Suspended until they fix it. I had it happen to me on more than one occasion.

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                                              Message 593 - Posted 8 Aug 2005 9:41:54 UTC

                                                Yes, it was the BURP bug, but this is just great! One should not start a project, unless he/she checks all other running projects how they will affect your project. Which I haven't done...silly me...no comment!
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                                                Message 598 - Posted 8 Aug 2005 12:01:10 UTC

                                                  This bug affects all other Boinc projects, not just Sztaki DG.

                                                  I think the Boinc Developers shoould take a close look at there code and find out, why BURP can interfere with other projects. Such things must not be possible. This time it may be sloppy programming, next time someone might use these loopholes to deliberatly sabotage another project.
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                                                  Message 599 - Posted 8 Aug 2005 12:38:03 UTC

                                                    Last modified: 8 Aug 2005 12:43:47 UTC

                                                    Hi all!

                                                    I have also been struck with 0 credited valid result today along with another poor cruncher and it was different OS(es) issue. Adam, may I suggest you turn on the homgeneous redundancy to avoid further "unjust/unintentional" result invalidation?

                                                    [edit] I see you allready identified the culprit... good job! [/edit]
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                                                    Message 600 - Posted 8 Aug 2005 12:46:11 UTC

                                                      Last modified: 8 Aug 2005 12:51:23 UTC

                                                      Hi Adam

                                                      You do need redundancy, no question, but sending a unit 5 times is too much redundancy, 3 times max from 3 different users would be sufficient to ensure integrity of result. The odds of 3 completely different users/computers agreeing on the result and being wrong must be enormous.

                                                      Don't run BURP because it has no apparent scientific merit.

                                                      As you say "it is fun"
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                                                      Message 603 - Posted 8 Aug 2005 21:33:21 UTC

                                                        Last modified: 8 Aug 2005 21:43:32 UTC

                                                        Right now I'm running at about a 12%-13% Rate for WU's that are Granted no Credit because of the Linux &amp; Windows conflict, I'm showing 7 WU's out of 58 Validated WU's with 0 Granted Credit because somebody with a Linux OS turned in their WU first.

                                                        If this Project ever expects to attract a larger Client Base things like this will need to be rectified for it to continue to grow. People at the other Projects watch whats going on here and at any other Projects they would like to join but as long as things like this goes on they are content to stay where they are at &amp; who can blame them.

                                                        PS: I was wrong in thinking it was the OS that the WU got turned in with first was the one that got granted the credit &amp; the other OS was out of luck. As you can see by this <a href="http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=2995">WU</a> 2 people with Windows turned in their WU before the person with the Linux OS turned in his, yet the person with the Linux OS got the Credit &amp; the people with the Windows OS got 0 Credit. Luck of the draw I guess...???

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                                                        Message 604 - Posted 8 Aug 2005 22:06:31 UTC

                                                          Last modified: 8 Aug 2005 22:10:48 UTC

                                                          "If this Project ever expects to attract a larger Client Base things like this will need to be rectified for it to continue to grow. People at the other Projects watch whats going on here and at any other Projects they would like to join but as long as things like this goes on they are content to stay where they are at &amp; who can blame them."

                                                          This project is still young and frankly i think that it runs rather well.
                                                          The problems are often resolved quickly.
                                                          Don't forgot also that people here are "only" humans...
                                                          So be patient...
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                                                          Message 605 - Posted 8 Aug 2005 22:27:36 UTC

                                                            Last modified: 8 Aug 2005 22:33:29 UTC

                                                            I have Patients Nightbird or I wouldn't have close to 1,000,000 Credits already &amp; would have left the Projects a long time ago.

                                                            I'm just pointing out the continual problem with the 2 OS where 1 of them receives no credit when the same WU is run on both OS's. If the problem can't be fixed then they need to separate the 2 OS's and run separate WU's for each of them like several of the other Projects do.

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                                                            Message 606 - Posted 8 Aug 2005 23:25:24 UTC

                                                              Everybody here or elsewhere, with 1000 or 100000 or 1000000 wus needs to be patient.
                                                              Or we would have All left Seti because of their outages during the week end, Predictor because the wus pending are "somewhere" , LHC because they didn't provide always wus etc..
                                                              I'm sure that a solution will be found.
                                                              In the worst case, we can suspend the project on our machines waiting for best days ;)

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                                                              Message 607 - Posted 9 Aug 2005 3:59:57 UTC

                                                                Last modified: 9 Aug 2005 4:06:02 UTC

                                                                <i>This has more to do with the OS. You are using Linux and Skip and JAKA24 are using MS XP. There have been several posts about this same issue. It is something Adam and Atilla need to fix, whether all are validated or send the same WU to just Linux boxes or same WU to just Windows boxes. It is how each OS handles the math instructions.</i>

                                                                I assume this one is the opposite situation where I got none.

                                                                http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=3053

                                                                15265 3053 8 Aug 2005 16:22:37 UTC 8 Aug 2005 18:26:41 UTC Vége Sikeres Befejeződött 7,285.94 34.16 0.00

                                                                Those dirty Linux dogs ;-)

                                                                Something new, to me, showed up here.

                                                                I think I was the first one with the result back (winXP)but the 2nd and 3rd boxes where Linux, the 4th box back with a result was windows 2003 server and the 5th one hasn't returned a result yet.. it's XP also.
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                                                                Message 608 - Posted 9 Aug 2005 8:35:44 UTC

                                                                  I've noticed with a lot of my 0 Credit WU's that 4 of the 5 Client's the WU is sent to are Windows Clients yet the lone Linux Client gets the only Credit. Wheres the Redundancy when this happens. The 4 Windows Clients are marked Invalid yet the Validator marks the Linux Client Valid and gives out the Credit to it with no Redundancy ...

                                                                  How can the Project call it Redundancy when only 1 Client out of 5 is marked valid...!!!

                                                                  If the Validator is using the Windows Clients for it's Redundancy Check &amp; then In-Validating them then the Server should be sending out the WU again until another Linux Client picks it up and returns it for Redundancy I would think.

                                                                  On the other hand if the Validator is using the Windows Clients for Redundancy and saying there is Redundancy then the Windows Clients should be marked Valid and given Credit I would think...???

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                                                                  Message 614 - Posted 9 Aug 2005 22:29:21 UTC

                                                                    @Poorboy
                                                                    That what you say is wrong!
                                                                    Why you say that windows clients are or should be used for
                                                                    validating only?
                                                                    Why you think that only the windows clients give the right result?
                                                                    What about if the windows clients would be wrong
                                                                    and just because of the numbers of windows-hosts you have more results
                                                                    of windows?
                                                                    If 2 linux-clients produce the same results then you have to accept this
                                                                    as correct the same way.
                                                                    If there is a difference between different clients then it has
                                                                    an other reason.
                                                                    Different clients work different and even on diffrent machines
                                                                    it can be possible to have different results.
                                                                    It depends on the algorithm for calculation (and on the machines precision)
                                                                    and its implementation.
                                                                    For algorithm you need to calculate how precise the result can be.
                                                                    That means you need to proof mathematically how many of the digits in the
                                                                    result can be accepted as correct and for the rest you have to
                                                                    say it is it not possible to say it is correct, because of rounding errors,
                                                                    which are depending on the algorithm too.
                                                                    The are many influences which can produce differnt results.
                                                                    Faulty algorithm, wrong implematation, wrong accepted precision of the result
                                                                    which means wrong validating.
                                                                    But where the differenes are based on exactly i can not tell you,
                                                                    But to want to accept just the results of the mostly used cleints is not
                                                                    right.
                                                                    An other question:
                                                                    Can you find any result which is validated for windows- amd
                                                                    linux-clients at the same time?
                                                                    If not how you want to say then which one is right?

                                                                    So lets do that job from SZTAKI-members because they know better
                                                                    how they can solve that, because they know best what they need to have
                                                                    calculated and about the software they offer us to use.
                                                                    Tthey are mostly interested in solving that, because they need proofed
                                                                    results.

                                                                    Our credits are secondary for the sience, but if right results are not
                                                                    validated it looks that there is somethign wrong.

                                                                    My personal opinion:
                                                                    The wrong but easier way would be to send work units only
                                                                    to the same clients.
                                                                    But not to know why they produce different results is not good
                                                                    because you are not sure of the correctness of the results.
                                                                    If you know why they are different then you can validate them
                                                                    and give credits for the same way.
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                                                                    Message 618 - Posted 9 Aug 2005 23:15:19 UTC

                                                                      Last modified: 9 Aug 2005 23:28:47 UTC

                                                                      @Poorboy
                                                                      That what you say is wrong!
                                                                      Why you say that windows clients are or should be used for
                                                                      validating only?
                                                                      Why you think that only the windows clients give the right result?
                                                                      What about if the windows clients would be wrong
                                                                      ==========

                                                                      Eerrrgggg...Where did I ever say that the Windows Client should be used for validating only or the Windows Client only gives the right Result. I was just using the WU's that I have 0 Credit for as an example of how those WU's are being Validated for One OS or the other.

                                                                      I'm trying to straighten it out for both OS so when they are processed together both OS get Credit and not just one of them. As far as being able to find a WU where both the Linux &amp; Windows OS got Credit I haven't been able to do so yet ...

                                                                      PS: I take that back about not being able to find one in my Account, I noticed I haven't had a 0 Credit WU for awhile now so I started going through the Validated ones and ran across this <a href="http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=3459">WU</a> &amp; this <a href="http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=3451">WU</a> where both a Linux &amp; Windows Client did receive Credit for the WU. Maybe the Dev's finally made some changes to allow the 2 OS to coexist and both receive Credit when processed together...???

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                                                                      Message 622 - Posted 10 Aug 2005 13:56:05 UTC

                                                                        | <i>But not to know why they produce different results is not good</i>

                                                                        It's the good old windows/linux new line representation incompatibility...they mark the line ends differently, and that wrecked our old validator. But we have a new one, which is a cleverer one! :)
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                                                                        Message 623 - Posted 10 Aug 2005 14:27:09 UTC

                                                                          Last modified: 10 Aug 2005 14:34:02 UTC

                                                                          <blockquote>It's the good old windows/linux new line representation incompatibility...they mark the line ends differently, and that wrecked our old validator. But we have a new one, which is a cleverer one! :)

                                                                          -- Adam</blockquote>


                                                                          It appears that the windows/linux results are matching up =) thanks Adam

                                                                          <a href="http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=3766">3766</a>




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                                                                          Message 624 - Posted 10 Aug 2005 14:29:37 UTC

                                                                            Last modified: 10 Aug 2005 14:29:49 UTC

                                                                            It appears that the windows/linux results are matching up =) thanks Adam
                                                                            =========

                                                                            Yes it seems so, I haven't had a WU with 0 Credit in about 24 hr's now... :)

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                                                                            Message 629 - Posted 11 Aug 2005 9:51:33 UTC

                                                                              Hi, yeah: the validator is working smooth now, and also we had the credit granting system arranged so the granting will be based on the average of the results from now on. Seems like we are taking over the child-ilnesses, and everything should be fine from now on.

                                                                              Just for the records: We have more million matrices to be searched, so we welcome all new users and computers
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                                                                              Message 643 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 3:49:05 UTC


                                                                                <a href="http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=618">618</a>
                                                                                <a href="http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=614">614</a>
                                                                                <a href="http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=574">574</a>
                                                                                <a href="http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=534">534</a>

                                                                                I got "0" for these 4 results and seeing as my hungarian is about as good as my spanish i haven't a clue as to why =)

                                                                                Adam is there anychance you could let me know if the results were invalid/errored out ? or is it a validator problem ?

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                                                                                Message 644 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 5:29:19 UTC

                                                                                  same problem here :
                                                                                  http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=472
                                                                                  http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=363

                                                                                  Vége Sikeres Befejeződött 6,638.95 21.04 0.00
                                                                                  Vége Sikeres Befejeződött 4,937.00 13.07 0.00

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                                                                                  Message 645 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 6:32:55 UTC

                                                                                    Last modified: 12 Aug 2005 6:33:21 UTC

                                                                                    I tried to crunching here again and what can see my eyes --&gt;0 credits again, before "Adam" you don`t fix the validator problem and granting the zero credits I will not crunching anymore for this project :(

                                                                                    Thats now the second time and wasted my CPU time...

                                                                                    http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=575

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                                                                                    Message 646 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 6:42:56 UTC

                                                                                      Perhaps, this is not a validator problem this time.
                                                                                      Never say die ! ;)
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                                                                                      Message 647 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 6:56:20 UTC

                                                                                        @Rebirther, it's not the Validators fault you got 0 Credits for that WU, there was some sort of error with the WU is the reason why. Maybe Adam will explain why there was an error or what the error was ...

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                                                                                        Message 650 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 10:17:12 UTC

                                                                                          Last modified: 12 Aug 2005 10:23:02 UTC

                                                                                          I have 0 credits for a valid WU too.
                                                                                          see: http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=394

                                                                                          there where two valid WUs claiming some credit, and one invalid WU claiming zero credit, and both vaild WUs got zero credits granted.

                                                                                          I checked other WUs with the same behaiviour, and it looks like all WUs will get zero credit when there is a client error downloading a WU

                                                                                          Please, Adam, corect this soon
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                                                                                          Message 651 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 12:17:08 UTC

                                                                                            It's not a fault. Our system's qourum is set to 3 which means no credit is granted until 3 matching results arrive back. And on the page, you have referenced, 1 result returned error, 2 matches and 1 is still under crunching. As soon as it gets returned back and turns out to be successful, you will get all of your credits...
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                                                                                            Message 652 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 12:41:20 UTC

                                                                                              Adam, just look at this WU: http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=618. It is one of Neil Woodvine's WUs, and has 3 valid results and one invalid, but still zero credits granted!
                                                                                              I think the WUs should stay in pending mode until the real credits are granted.

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                                                                                              Message 654 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 17:54:44 UTC

                                                                                                "I think the WUs should stay in pending mode until the real credits are granted"
                                                                                                Me too or soon your crunchers, Adam, will become cardiac ;)
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                                                                                                Message 657 - Posted 12 Aug 2005 21:00:18 UTC

                                                                                                  That is what I mean:

                                                                                                  http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=513
                                                                                                  http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=576
                                                                                                  http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=567

                                                                                                  Iam very disappointed, wanted only finish these last WUs but 0 again :(
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                                                                                                  Message 663 - Posted 13 Aug 2005 12:28:47 UTC

                                                                                                    Three out of my last four WU's have gotten 0 credit:

                                                                                                    639
                                                                                                    1089
                                                                                                    1112


                                                                                                    It's not a fault. Our system's qourum is set to 3 which means no credit is granted until 3 matching results arrive back. And on the page, you have referenced, 1 result returned error, 2 matches and 1 is still under crunching. As soon as it gets returned back and turns out to be successful, you will get all of your credits...


                                                                                                    All had SOMEONE error out on them, but on 639 and 1089, there were also at least three valid results, and none of us got credit. On 1112, there were two errors, which should mean a 5th trial gets sent out, and we stay "pending" but it hasn't been, and 0 credit has been assigned. I suspect the "averaging" routine is failing if there are any users with errors, and the resend routine is not working.

                                                                                                    This seems to be throwing away valid WUs AND wasting a whole lot of processing time for no credit and no scientific value...

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                                                                                                    Message 666 - Posted 13 Aug 2005 12:39:49 UTC

                                                                                                      Alright, it seems to be a validator problem again (we will come over this once...sometime) We will fix it with priority and EVERYONE who had claimed credit, but it is not granted, I'll make sure to grant those credits for ALL OF YOU. No credits will be lost, I promise.
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                                                                                                      Message 668 - Posted 13 Aug 2005 13:36:09 UTC

                                                                                                        Last modified: 13 Aug 2005 13:36:25 UTC

                                                                                                        With "my" wus, everytime that i see something like that
                                                                                                        Vége - Kliens oldali hiba - Számítás - 0.00 - 0.00
                                                                                                        i'm sure that me (and others users) will get no credit even if my wus are ok
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                                                                                                        Message 669 - Posted 13 Aug 2005 15:26:24 UTC

                                                                                                          I don't know if this will help in tracking the problem down or not, but if you look at 731, the three results are 9.03, 8.49, and 9.28 - average is 8.9, but the validator awarded the 9.03...

                                                                                                          The 9.03 was the 2nd of the 3 results returned, so it's not just grabbing the first one. Is it possibly dropping the highest and the lowest and averaging the one remaining? :-)

                                                                                                          The 4th result hasn't been returned yet for this WU. If the quota is 3 and you're awarding the average credit, does that mean the 4th result isn't included in the average? That's not a problem, just a question for clarification...

                                                                                                          Looking at 168, same pattern - dropped the highest and lowest of the first three, ignored the claimed credit for the 4th (not there yet when validator ran, I assume), assigned all 4 the "middle" credit from the first three.

                                                                                                          None of this is necessarily a problem, if it is what you intended, just something we need to understand. The "nobody gets credit if there are any errors returned" part is the bug needing to be fixed.

                                                                                                          And the 4-day deadline is perfect!

                                                                                                          Thanks!

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                                                                                                          Message 670 - Posted 13 Aug 2005 16:42:21 UTC

                                                                                                            The first three are used to determine the credit and the fourth, once validated, will get simply the same credit as the other three.
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                                                                                                            Message 674 - Posted 13 Aug 2005 23:25:01 UTC

                                                                                                              | <i>Is it possibly dropping the highest and the lowest and averaging the one remaining? :-)</i>

                                                                                                              Yes, this is the case. Always drop the highest and the lowest ones, and average the rest of hte successful ones, but since we have a quorum of 3, after the dropping only one remains, the average of which is itself. But please understand the following:
                                                                                                              If we set the quorum to 3, it means that all WU that has to be crunched will be sent out 3 times. Lets say we have 50 million WUs (just an example, but man I can tell you that we have lotsof, lotsof more WUs :) - only because we need redundant computing to avoid hackers - we have 50 millon times 3 equals to 150 million results, that has to be crunched before we can say 11th dimension has been completed.
                                                                                                              Just for the records: we now have about 2400 computers, but I can't tell you how many of those are doing work continuously. Which means that with this computing power all of you can be sure to have WUs for the next 10x years from SZTAKI Desktop Grid.
                                                                                                              So please understand, that I couldn't raise the quorum any more, until we have such a small user base. And to tell the thruth rasing the quorum higher than 3 would be paranoia only (imaginary fear from hackers), nothing else.
                                                                                                              Of course, if we'll have a nice big user group in the future there won't be any drags to leave out the "drop the highest &amp; lowest thing" and base the average of the granted credit on all of the 3 returned successful results. In which case, the quorum hasn't got to be raised, and still you can have your real averaging of the claimed credits...
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                                                                                                              Message 686 - Posted 15 Aug 2005 8:39:48 UTC

                                                                                                                Last modified: 15 Aug 2005 8:48:27 UTC

                                                                                                                argh !
                                                                                                                http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=1549
                                                                                                                http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=1573

                                                                                                                and always
                                                                                                                Vége Kliens oldali hiba Számítás 0.00 0.00

                                                                                                                what's the meaning ?
                                                                                                                Érvényesítési állapot : Munka csomag hiba - ellenőrzés kihagyva

                                                                                                                ps : i'm ready to go on and i will attach a new machine But we need wus ;)
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                                                                                                                Message 691 - Posted 15 Aug 2005 15:18:42 UTC

                                                                                                                  Alright, sorry! It should be corrected by now...
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                                                                                                                  Message 3880 - Posted 26 Aug 2006 12:19:32 UTC

                                                                                                                    I hope so.

                                                                                                                    Now the wu\'s have normal sizes, I\'ve tried this project again, but there\'s no credit is granted. ( http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/results.php?hostid=15781 )

                                                                                                                    Kliens oldali hiba... What\'s that?
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                                                                                                                    Message 3901 - Posted 28 Aug 2006 14:42:09 UTC - in response to Message 3880.

                                                                                                                      Last modified: 28 Aug 2006 14:42:32 UTC

                                                                                                                      I hope so.
                                                                                                                      kliens oldali hiba... What\'s that?


                                                                                                                      \"client side error\"

                                                                                                                      you might found a bug in the sztaki application. we are on the
                                                                                                                      problem. if you experience the same issue please report it here.

                                                                                                                      adam is responsible for granting credits, he will look at it when
                                                                                                                      he is back (approx 2 weeks).

                                                                                                                      thanks.


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                                                                                                                      Message 3902 - Posted 28 Aug 2006 15:25:05 UTC - in response to Message 3901.

                                                                                                                        Last modified: 28 Aug 2006 15:50:38 UTC


                                                                                                                        you might found a bug in the sztaki application. we are on the
                                                                                                                        problem. if you experience the same issue please report it here.


                                                                                                                        we fixed the problem: there were wu-s that did not produce a
                                                                                                                        checkpoint file. this file is used to save the state of the wu
                                                                                                                        periodically, also this file is needed for validation (and so
                                                                                                                        credit granting). we replaced the remaining unsent wus from
                                                                                                                        this type with ones that produce the file.

                                                                                                                        [ we use an api called dc-api for our application, and this
                                                                                                                        is an internal feature of that api (by default requiring the
                                                                                                                        upload of the checkpoint file ). there will be an updated client
                                                                                                                        soon. ]

                                                                                                                        if you have computed (or still computing) one of the bugy ones and
                                                                                                                        get an error, please report it and we will investigate and grant
                                                                                                                        you the credit (when adam is back).

                                                                                                                        thanks.


                                                                                                                        attila

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