Ad@m\'s POD (page 8)


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Message 4151 - Posted 28 Sep 2006 8:58:23 UTC

    Közkívánatra a fórumot visszaállítottam eredeti formájába.

    By popular request, the forum has been restored to it\'s original state.
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    Message 4157 - Posted 29 Sep 2006 5:18:21 UTC - in response to Message 4151.

      I think something is wrong with this WU...
      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=2606

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      Message 4158 - Posted 29 Sep 2006 10:11:59 UTC

        Now I really got enough of this project.
        Deadlines too short, computations error without any reason, credits not given.
        The last computation error I had is :
        29/09/2006 11:26:31|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Unrecoverable error for result 21b342bd-9be3-49d2-8c12-48e176df7b34_d981fabf-fa31-4ad6-8dfc-d9b56693323e_769_0 (Maximum CPU time exceeded)
        224 crunching hours lost only for this wu ???
        What about the project, are you really waiting everybody quit it or what ???

        Seb

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        Message 4159 - Posted 29 Sep 2006 10:43:11 UTC


          Not feeling very happy about this project.
          OK - so I lost patience a couple of weeks ago and abandoned a WU because
          it seemed to be getting nowhere.

          I apologized for that and decided to give the project another chance.
          Have a look at this WU which I have crunched for 23hrs so far -
          http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=8784

          There is a quorum of 3 required for a result on this project.
          The WU was sent out to 3 comps, but there was a download error on one.

          Why was it not re-sent out to another comp to enable the quorum of 3 to be met?



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          Message 4160 - Posted 29 Sep 2006 11:11:14 UTC - in response to Message 4159.

            Last modified: 29 Sep 2006 11:13:21 UTC

            Have a look at this WU which I have crunched for 23hrs so far -
            http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=8784

            There is a quorum of 3 required for a result on this project.
            The WU was sent out to 3 comps, but there was a download error on one.

            Why was it not re-sent out to another comp to enable the quorum of 3 to be met?


            A fourth WU was created 4 seconds after the error occurred (WU number 8784, Result ID 32080). At this moment it is in the waiting queue to be sent out. This takes a few days. Please don\'t worry, everything is OK!

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            Message 4161 - Posted 29 Sep 2006 11:19:25 UTC

              Last modified: 29 Sep 2006 12:16:36 UTC

              Hey John..good to see you again...

              Here are my results page

              You will notice that the 2 WU\'s that did finish are 25 lines(whatever that means, but they talk about it a lot in the forum as if someone told me how they constructed the programming)

              Also these WU\'s start with 0f7....you can see that these get done processing...

              but, I am beginning to have \"reservations\" about a project here that starts with a number 1 .... I have just one left that is at 20% with 57 hours and a completion time of 67 hours, but the completion time keeps climbing. Unfortunately, I have been reading elsewhere in these forums that folks are reaching 200 hours of time and getting an \"error\" reading after reaching 200 hours. not good. I have only 1 PC here...user stats

              I have suspended that WU to see if anyone else finishes it. If they do, I would then go to finish it. If I remember correctly, that was a suggestion of Nightbird, which makes sense to me.

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              Message 4165 - Posted 30 Sep 2006 13:27:56 UTC

                Valami nem stimmel a csapatokkal. Pl a BME csapat közelmúltbeli teljesítményének élén egy 100kredites ember áll, aki közelmúltbelije 0,7!!! Valami frissítést kéne ráküldeni ezekre...
                A másik, hogy fogynak a WU-k... 70 maradt még :) Meglátjuk mi lesz, ha elfogy :p
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                Message 4166 - Posted 30 Sep 2006 18:36:38 UTC



                  I do think we need some answers here - I have several/lots of WU\'s in que and being crunched.
                  Time to complete keeps increasing, some are at 70 or 80 hours of processing time.

                  Am I wasting my time here - do I need to abort these WU\'s and move on to something else before wasting any more time on them.


                  Suspending project for now - maybe they will complete in time maybe not -

                  I await some answers from Adam
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                  Message 4168 - Posted 30 Sep 2006 20:32:28 UTC - in response to Message 4166.

                    Time to complete keeps increasing, some are at 70 or 80 hours of processing time.

                    Am I wasting my time here

                    Increasing time to complete is very annoying, but 3 of us did not waste time with wu 6755.
                    It is possible (but maybe rare) to finish wu\'s i got in this round, but with estimated time to complete being way off i will also not complete all the work i received on that host, even running 24/7 sztaki until Oct 19.

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                    Message 4169 - Posted 30 Sep 2006 21:00:23 UTC - in response to Message 4161.

                      Last modified: 30 Sep 2006 21:23:17 UTC

                      ..........

                      I have suspended that WU to see if anyone else finishes it. If they do, I would then go to finish it. If I remember correctly, that was a suggestion of Nightbird, which makes sense to me.

                      Right
                      I wrote that here

                      edit :
                      With 45 wus d/led and because it was not possible obviously to begin and finish some wus before their deadline, i aborted 15 wus using the same idea.
                      This way, the wu has been sent again (and before its deadline so quicker) and will get perhaps a best chance to be crunched sucessfully.
                      Ehm, about the 15 wus aborted, atm 2 wus got a successful result.
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                      Message 4170 - Posted 30 Sep 2006 23:06:19 UTC

                        I have finished one 247 100 line ,it steped 1% at a time,I also finised 2 25 line 07f they stepped at 4% at a time. Iam running a 2 line 21b342 ,at 9hours it went to 50% and is still at 50% at 170 hours. The second lie of the text is [pos 1456] [12] [3-30 146 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 51 -10 1] [3-30 161 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 51-10 1] [3-30 161 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 51-10 1] [0] [0], the text never calls out for the program to finish.
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                        Message 4172 - Posted 1 Oct 2006 6:43:41 UTC

                          Hi, Adam!

                          I\'ve been away for ten days. Before I left, I set SZTAKI Desktop Grid to no new tasks, since progress on my Mac G4 was so slow.

                          Having returned, the situation on the G4 (gwgg4pmac.local) is two processes still running (out ot time, that is):

                          [b] WU Started Deadline CPU Time Progress[/b] 1505 14 Sep 2006 23:56:05 2 Oct 2006 23:56:05 170:27:18 10% 1530 14 Sep 2006 23:58:08 12 Oct 2006 23:58:08 61:52:56 50%


                          My machine/software cancels a WU when it exceeds 300 hours, and it looks very like 1505 won\'t finish in time: 1530 may not, either.

                          Your advice, please. Should I cancel 1505 or let it run on? I believe that it was reading 10% before I left ten days ago. At the moment, I think I should stick with 1530, but it also was (from memory) 50% ten days ago, and the machine was left running 24/7 on a UPS for the ten days. I lost Internet connection on or about 23 September, but that shouldn\'t have affected these WUs.

                          George
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                          Message 4174 - Posted 1 Oct 2006 18:34:20 UTC - in response to Message 4172.

                            Last modified: 1 Oct 2006 18:48:06 UTC

                            Hi, Adam!

                            I\'ve been away for ten days. Before I left, I set SZTAKI Desktop Grid to no new tasks, since progress on my Mac G4 was so slow.

                            Having returned, the situation on the G4 (gwgg4pmac.local) is two processes still running (out ot time, that is):
                            [b] WU Started Deadline CPU Time Progress[/b] 1505 14 Sep 2006 23:56:05 2 Oct 2006 23:56:05 170:27:18 10% 1530 14 Sep 2006 23:58:08 12 Oct 2006 23:58:08 61:52:56 50%


                            My machine/software cancels a WU when it exceeds 300 hours, and it looks very like 1505 won\'t finish in time: 1530 may not, either.

                            Your advice, please. Should I cancel 1505 or let it run on? I believe that it was reading 10% before I left ten days ago. At the moment, I think I should stick with 1530, but it also was (from memory) 50% ten days ago, and the machine was left running 24/7 on a UPS for the ten days. I lost Internet connection on or about 23 September, but that shouldn\'t have affected these WUs.

                            George
                            ------

                            Deadline : 12 oct for the 2 wus.
                            I have 2 wus 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d (like your wu 1505) and they are suspended on my machine.
                            I uploaded 2 wus 21b342bd-9be3-49d2-8c12-48e176df7b34 (like your wu 1530) (final time cpu : + 46 h and + 14 h) so i would choose to run the wu 1530.
                            (with fingers crossed because my machine is different)
                            I see also that :
                            - in the quorum a result has been aborted and the third is unsent atm.
                            - the third machine has d/led 38 wus, that will be probably difficult to upload 38 results successfully before their deadline.
                            So not impossible that a new wu will be sent again.
                            So you will need many patience, waiting for the quorum. :(

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                            Message 4175 - Posted 1 Oct 2006 19:34:27 UTC

                              Hi Adam



                              I ran 2 0f740 which are 25 lies. I am running 21b342 which is two lines,second line is



                              [ pos 1456] [12] [2] {3-30 146 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 51-10 1] [3-30 161 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 51-10 1] [0] [0]

                              at 9hrs it went to 50% and has stayed at 50% for 178hrs and counting.


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                              Message 4177 - Posted 2 Oct 2006 0:38:49 UTC - in response to Message 4174.

                                Hi, Adam!

                                I\'ve been away for ten days. Before I left, I set SZTAKI Desktop Grid to no new tasks, since progress on my Mac G4 was so slow.

                                Having returned, the situation on the G4 (gwgg4pmac.local) is two processes still running (out ot time, that is):
                                [b] WU Started Deadline CPU Time Progress[/b] 1505 14 Sep 2006 23:56:05 2 Oct 2006 23:56:05 170:27:18 10% 1530 14 Sep 2006 23:58:08 12 Oct 2006 23:58:08 61:52:56 50%


                                My machine/software cancels a WU when it exceeds 300 hours, and it looks very like 1505 won\'t finish in time: 1530 may not, either.

                                Your advice, please. Should I cancel 1505 or let it run on? I believe that it was reading 10% before I left ten days ago. At the moment, I think I should stick with 1530, but it also was (from memory) 50% ten days ago, and the machine was left running 24/7 on a UPS for the ten days. I lost Internet connection on or about 23 September, but that shouldn\'t have affected these WUs.

                                George
                                ------

                                Deadline : 12 oct for the 2 wus.
                                I have 2 wus 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d (like your wu 1505) and they are suspended on my machine.
                                I uploaded 2 wus 21b342bd-9be3-49d2-8c12-48e176df7b34 (like your wu 1530) (final time cpu : + 46 h and + 14 h) so i would choose to run the wu 1530.
                                (with fingers crossed because my machine is different)
                                I see also that :
                                - in the quorum a result has been aborted and the third is unsent atm.
                                - the third machine has d/led 38 wus, that will be probably difficult to upload 38 results successfully before their deadline.
                                So not impossible that a new wu will be sent again.
                                So you will need many patience, waiting for the quorum. :(


                                Interestingly, 1530 is still 50% at 64:12:36, whereas 1505 has advanced to 20% at 185:18:51. These two projects have been assigned 50% of the total machine resources, and BOINC seems to have been pushing 1505 due to the deadline.

                                I\'ll let them both run a bit longer.

                                Thanks for the advice.

                                George
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                                Message 4178 - Posted 2 Oct 2006 1:06:17 UTC

                                  Last modified: 2 Oct 2006 1:08:23 UTC

                                  My wus 21b342bd... (though running) are sticky at 50 % (but time is increasing) and my wus 1a9d6387... are sticky at 10 or 20 % (these wus are presently suspended).
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                                  Message 4179 - Posted 2 Oct 2006 7:51:45 UTC

                                    Without any comments.

                                    01/10/2006 00:15:40|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Aborting task 21b342bd-9be3-49d2-8c12-48e176df7b34_c9ac057d-5f8b-4814-92c8-239a3e39483d_408_2: exceeded CPU time limit 818417.334861
                                    01/10/2006 00:15:40|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Unrecoverable error for result 21b342bd-9be3-49d2-8c12-48e176df7b34_c9ac057d-5f8b-4814-92c8-239a3e39483d_408_2 (Maximum CPU time exceeded)

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                                    Message 4182 - Posted 2 Oct 2006 15:24:55 UTC

                                      Could anyone advise me if I could finish the WU or to abort.
                                      My WU #2478 started on 15/9/2006 will end on 13/10/2006 now has just reached 100 hours CPU time at 10%. I check that the unit is being crunched by another 2 computers with outcome unknown. Since both computers - a AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 2800+ and a AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3700+ are much faster than my Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) III CPU - M 1200MHz. I wonder if they do not complete the WU till now, I would probably not be able to complete before deadline.

                                      My WU is a ten lines as below

                                      [pos 9441] [12] [-3] [3 -35 182 0 0 0 0 0 0 -204 64 -12 1] [3 -35 182 0 0 0 0 0 0 -180 64 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      [pos 9442] [12] [-3] [3 -35 183 0 0 0 0 0 0 -204 64 -12 1] [3 -35 183 0 0 0 0 0 0 -180 64 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      [pos 9443] [12] [-3] [3 -35 184 0 0 0 0 0 0 -204 64 -12 1] [3 -35 184 0 0 0 0 0 0 -180 64 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      [pos 9444] [12] [-3] [3 -35 185 0 0 0 0 0 0 -204 64 -12 1] [3 -35 185 0 0 0 0 0 0 -180 64 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      [pos 9445] [12] [-3] [3 -35 186 0 0 0 0 0 0 -204 64 -12 1] [3 -35 186 0 0 0 0 0 0 -180 64 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      [pos 9446] [12] [-3] [3 -35 187 0 0 0 0 0 0 -204 64 -12 1] [3 -35 187 0 0 0 0 0 0 -180 64 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      [pos 9447] [12] [-3] [3 -35 188 0 0 0 0 0 0 -204 64 -12 1] [3 -35 188 0 0 0 0 0 0 -180 64 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      [pos 9448] [12] [-3] [3 -35 176 0 0 0 0 0 0 -216 65 -12 1] [3 -35 176 0 0 0 0 0 0 -192 65 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      [pos 9449] [12] [-3] [3 -35 177 0 0 0 0 0 0 -216 65 -12 1] [3 -35 177 0 0 0 0 0 0 -192 65 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      [pos 9450] [12] [-3] [3 -35 178 0 0 0 0 0 0 -216 65 -12 1] [3 -35 178 0 0 0 0 0 0 -192 65 -12 1] [0] [0]

                                      Philip
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                                      Message 4186 - Posted 3 Oct 2006 16:47:38 UTC

                                        OK... I have 4 WUs Running...
                                        1. at 198+ CPU hours
                                        2. at 171+ CPU Hours
                                        3. At 148+ CPU hours and last,
                                        4. at 24+ CPU hours.

                                        3 previous WUs reached 200+ hours and ERRORS happened: Max CPU Hours???.. I\'ve asked for help from this formum and NO RESPONSE...

                                        I\'m beginning to think this SZTAKI Desktop Grid does not care. and is NOT willing to offer help.

                                        Am I missing something?

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                                        Message 4187 - Posted 3 Oct 2006 19:02:24 UTC

                                          Adam - you need to rescue and, in my opinion, downgrade this project from its \"fully operational\" status. There are still legitimate issues to work out; which are acceptable if this were a test, or alpha project.

                                          You have not posted updates since your, IMHO, questionable \"redesign\" of the forums, and your project is likely suffering because of it.

                                          Please respond to your project\'s users, if you value our input and volunteered resources.
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                                          Message 4196 - Posted 4 Oct 2006 7:01:19 UTC

                                            The project won\'t be downgraded, since the wrong assumption of runtimes is not an error but a feature of the algorithm. And to be frankly, you don\'t want me to tell it preceisly, cause if I could tell how long exactly a result will last, than I could even tell the lottery numbers, would be rich by tomorrow and go on holiday :-). To be serious, we are working on how we could satisfy your needs, but please try to understand that we\'re also - like everyone else - bound to reality.

                                            A projekt nem lesz lefokozva a következők miatt. A program futási ideje nem azért van rosszul becsülve, mert hibás a program, hanem mert a futatott algoritmusnak van egy ilyen tulajdonsága. Nem lehet pontosan megmondani meddig fog futni. Mindenesetre, dolgozunk egy megoldáson, ami kielégítőbb megoldást nyújt a többség számára.
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                                            Message 4199 - Posted 4 Oct 2006 16:16:08 UTC

                                              I wish I could agree. Consistent errors, even though they are not things you can predict, are the norm for this project at the moment.

                                              My point is not that your science is not valid, which it may be (my university degree is in Journalism), but the applications that processes the calculations are not performing to the level of a Fully Operational BOINC project.

                                              You can predict, however, in a few short runs, if an application needs to be fixed so it does not run for 200 or more hours before timing out or generating an error.
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                                              Message 4200 - Posted 4 Oct 2006 16:31:32 UTC

                                                I would update my WU figures since my last message and provides, hopefully, some views for SZTAKI participants for further discuss. It seems that the board is very quiet, because perhaps, everybody is too tired crunching the LLLLOOOONNNNGGGG WUs.

                                                My WU is now at 120 hours and, well, still at 10% and the other two crunchers have also not finished yet. Too sad.

                                                BOINC, evolved, from the original SETI@home is to allow scientific or mathematical projects to utilize idle CPU cycles of computers around the globe. Credits are given to participants as a commendation to their efforts. As a matter of fact, the credits have no money value. Nowadays, many crunchers, like most of us, turn on our computers 24/7 in order to take part in many BOINC projects. We pay the electricity bill, bear the tears and wears caused by the non-stop running of hardware. We, without noticing, become too much concern about getting credits, remembering that we had asked Adam over and over again: \"where is our credit?\", until well we were satisfied.

                                                Now regarding the long WUs, the gut of the issue is nevertheless the same: \"where is our credit?\". We gives our CPU cycles to the project but cannot have any credits. I understand that Adam is correct in a way that he does not know that exact run time. But I, as from the point of view of many crunchers, would ask whether the credit system could be, say, modified or relaxed. The suggestion may include, if technically feasible,

                                                - extend the report deadline of further WUs and Adam to announce the existing WUs could be granted credits even completed after the deadline;
                                                - grant credits to WUs even there is client error.
                                                - for \"maximum CPU time\" error, I have a machine running climatepredition.net and the WU has report deadline over 1 year and is now running over 2000 CPU hours without error. Could SZTAKI be modified as such?
                                                - give credits even the 3 quorums cannot be satisfied.

                                                For my part, I shall let my Notebook to run the WU for at least until the report deadline. I am now leaving my machine to run overnight to maximize the run time. For all of you serious crunchers, please give Adam some time. Like the \"credits problem\" before, he would eventually sort out the problem.

                                                Philip

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                                                Message 4204 - Posted 4 Oct 2006 21:39:07 UTC

                                                  I have been quietly crunching WU\'s on and off for this project for some time. It has come to my attention on several ocasions that when my computer downloads WU\'s from this project it obviously would like to believe it is the only thing running on my pc. I recently, as in the past, had to cancel 3/4 of the WU\'s from this project because they would not have finnished by thier deadline. I am not going to run stuff that I do not believe come from an apreciative project.

                                                  So, Please announce when the project is running in a \"Fully Operational\" state so that I may once again donate my cpu hours. In the mean time, I will not be accepting new work units from SZTAKI.

                                                  Have a nice day, and happy crunching!!

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                                                  Message 4206 - Posted 4 Oct 2006 23:16:46 UTC

                                                    I got a nice surprise today—no big deal, but good news is hard to come by around here, these days …

                                                    My G4/733 finally ‘paid off’ the debt it had incurred over July & August and downloaded some work. It only got four WUs, which I was glad to see—I was half expecting to receive a year’s worth, sending it straight back into “panic mode” again. The first one sat at 0% for quite a while, but completed in ‘only’ about twelve hours of crunching; I guess it was a one-liner. No credit yet, but two other copies of the result are out there somewhere, with no errors showing, so there’s hope!

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                                                    Message 4207 - Posted 5 Oct 2006 1:43:59 UTC - in response to Message 4196.

                                                      The project won\'t be downgraded, since the wrong assumption of runtimes is not an error but a feature of the algorithm. And to be frankly, you don\'t want me to tell it preceisly, cause if I could tell how long exactly a result will last, than I could even tell the lottery numbers, would be rich by tomorrow and go on holiday :-). To be serious, we are working on how we could satisfy your needs, but please try to understand that we\'re also - like everyone else - bound to reality.

                                                      ... (Magyar, which I don\'t read)


                                                      Adam. I am a (retired) physicist and computer scientist, and I understand the vagaries of computational times, especially with recursive functions. I have also dabbled with representation of numbers, and I have a great appreciation for the work being attempted.

                                                      However, what I am concerned with is the numerical stability of your algorithm. The algorithm must be stable under approximate computations using real numbers. I don\'t know the method being used as a sieve, but it appears to involve matrix inversion, and judging from the number of WUs returning errors, at least some of the matrices are ill-conditioned. Moreover, it appears to me at least that the algorithm is more stable on some machines than others. An appropriate algorithm should not exhibit such behaviour.

                                                      Perhaps you need to consult with a numerical analyst on the stability of your algorithm. Perhaps your algorithm needs several sub-algorithms, one of which is chosen for suitability of the given matrix conditioning. Being able to classify the matrix conditioning would also give you a better handle on estimating computational times.

                                                      I myself am not concerned with very long computational times except where the computation time is wasted, such as a computational error, or running over the hard limit the BOINC client places on computational time, or overrunning the deadline.

                                                      I don\'t know about the others, but the credits for me are simply the measure of how much I have aided a project. I am not in a race. However, as others have pointed out, running machines 24/7 is not cheap and I don\'t like to see a machine spinning for a long time and then failing give a valid result.

                                                      This is not a criticism of your work, but rather some comments from one who has had a lot of experience with algorithm stability, while at the same time not being an expert.

                                                      George
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                                                      Message 4209 - Posted 5 Oct 2006 4:32:19 UTC

                                                        Adam
                                                        This is getting crazy. 4th 200+ CPU hours WU to end this way:

                                                        10/4/2006 9:51:51 PM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Unrecoverable error for result 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_b2148078-9bd5-4531-bb17-e2f0b942a38e_213_0 (Maximum CPU time exceeded)

                                                        I have not received any credit. I still have 4 more WUs running well over 420 additional hours combined.

                                                        I have no confidence this is worth my computer hours being wasted on SZTAKI

                                                        Shame on you for not replying to my 3 previous plea for help.


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                                                        Message 4212 - Posted 5 Oct 2006 13:43:24 UTC

                                                          A big thumbs up for gwg\'s post. I am also not in it for the credits (though they are nice), rather for contributing a fast PC\'s resources to a valid, and STABLE, scientific project.
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                                                          Message 4213 - Posted 5 Oct 2006 16:59:07 UTC

                                                            I notice that Folding@home beta for the ATI X1900
                                                            video card GPU is available now

                                                            http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-ATI.html

                                                            Is anyone working on an Sztaki GPU application?

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                                                            Message 4214 - Posted 5 Oct 2006 17:57:56 UTC - in response to Message 4209.

                                                              Last modified: 5 Oct 2006 18:01:30 UTC

                                                              Adam
                                                              This is getting crazy. 4th 200+ CPU hours WU to end this way:

                                                              10/4/2006 9:51:51 PM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Unrecoverable error for result 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_b2148078-9bd5-4531-bb17-e2f0b942a38e_213_0 (Maximum CPU time exceeded)

                                                              I have not received any credit. I still have 4 more WUs running well over 420 additional hours combined.

                                                              I have no confidence this is worth my computer hours being wasted on SZTAKI

                                                              Shame on you for not replying to my 3 previous plea for help.


                                                              Bob, i don\'t crunch the wus 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-xxx
                                                              I don\'t know why but that seems \'mission impossible\' and i don\'t want to get the message \'Maximum CPU time exceeded\'.
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                                                              Message 4215 - Posted 5 Oct 2006 19:25:36 UTC - in response to Message 4214.

                                                                Last modified: 5 Oct 2006 19:28:27 UTC

                                                                Adam
                                                                This is getting crazy. 4th 200+ CPU hours WU to end this way:

                                                                10/4/2006 9:51:51 PM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Unrecoverable error for result 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_b2148078-9bd5-4531-bb17-e2f0b942a38e_213_0 (Maximum CPU time exceeded)

                                                                I have not received any credit. I still have 4 more WUs running well over 420 additional hours combined.

                                                                I have no confidence this is worth my computer hours being wasted on SZTAKI

                                                                Shame on you for not replying to my 3 previous plea for help.


                                                                Bob, i don\'t crunch the wus 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-xxx
                                                                I don\'t know why but that seems \'mission impossible\' and i don\'t want to get the message \'Maximum CPU time exceeded\'.


                                                                Nightbird,
                                                                Thanks for replying, tho, I don\'t understand what you are saying. That particular WU is # 428. I have the same message for WU 384 and 418. I dont have a copy of the original WU # over over 1 month ago..
                                                                I do have 5 add\'l Wus running and have not received any credit thus far.

                                                                You are the 1st to reply to my plea.
                                                                The message I posted contained the message exactly as posted by the error.

                                                                Bob



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                                                                Message 4216 - Posted 5 Oct 2006 19:36:39 UTC

                                                                  Last modified: 5 Oct 2006 19:42:25 UTC

                                                                  Your wu #428 is a 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d...
                                                                  I don\'t crunch these wus (i aborted them excepted one) because it seems that nobody (excepted 1 Linux user) has been able to finish them (according what i see in my account)
                                                                  These wus would need many time obviously. If i crunch them and if at the end i get a \'Maximum CPU time exceeded\', i wasted time for others wus.
                                                                  So i do a choice.
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                                                                  Message 4217 - Posted 5 Oct 2006 20:34:13 UTC - in response to Message 4216.

                                                                    Last modified: 5 Oct 2006 20:43:08 UTC

                                                                    Your wu #428 is a 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d...
                                                                    I don\'t crunch these wus (i aborted them excepted one) because it seems that nobody (excepted 1 Linux user) has been able to finish them (according what i see in my account)
                                                                    These wus would need many time obviously. If i crunch them and if at the end i get a \'Maximum CPU time exceeded\', i wasted time for others wus.
                                                                    So i do a choice.


                                                                    I have successfully crunched three 1a9 WUs with Windows but that computer crunches 24h/day. I\'m not sure how checkpoints work with those WUs. I have aborted all my 21b WUs...

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                                                                    Message 4218 - Posted 5 Oct 2006 20:59:47 UTC - in response to Message 4217.

                                                                      Last modified: 5 Oct 2006 21:00:20 UTC

                                                                      Your wu #428 is a 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d...
                                                                      I don\'t crunch these wus (i aborted them excepted one) because it seems that nobody (excepted 1 Linux user) has been able to finish them (according what i see in my account)
                                                                      These wus would need many time obviously. If i crunch them and if at the end i get a \'Maximum CPU time exceeded\', i wasted time for others wus.
                                                                      So i do a choice.


                                                                      I have successfully crunched three 1a9 WUs with Windows but that computer crunches 24h/day. I\'m not sure how checkpoints work with those WUs. I have aborted all my 21b WUs...

                                                                      Me too, my machine crunches 24h/day but with 3 others Boinc projects.
                                                                      And with more 40 wus d/led...
                                                                      My wus 21b342bd-9be3, i tried to keep them (though some were aborted) and some are now in a quorum, awaiting.

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                                                                      Message 4220 - Posted 6 Oct 2006 13:07:58 UTC

                                                                        WU # 419 Just errored MAX CPU time. This is # 5 with OVER 200+ CPU hours wasted. yet my account only show 4. I still have 1 running with over 257 CPU hours... I wonder how long before this DIES? the other 3 are under 60 hours.



                                                                        10/6/2006 1:32:37 AM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Unrecoverable error for result 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_eb496c67-de9a-4480-9619-8b5ceb8a73d8_208_1 (Maximum CPU time exceeded)

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                                                                        Message 4221 - Posted 6 Oct 2006 13:53:49 UTC

                                                                          még egy apróság: véletlen egybeesés (szerintem nem) hogy a kiküldetlen és kiküldött csomagok száma egyenlő? :p (szerver állapot)
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                                                                          Message 4223 - Posted 6 Oct 2006 18:52:16 UTC - in response to Message 4214.

                                                                            Last modified: 6 Oct 2006 19:30:34 UTC

                                                                            I don\'t crunch the wus 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-xxx
                                                                            I don\'t know why but that seems \'mission impossible\' and i don\'t want to get the message \'Maximum CPU time exceeded\'.

                                                                            Nightbird, I think that they are so easy to crunch. I just finished 3 of them in nearly 7 hours on a Windows system (12045, 12078 and 12088). So? Mission possible!

                                                                            But on another computer I need nearly 100 hours to crunch 1 of those WUs. That\'s not a problem in itself, but the server went mad when I downloaded them. I forgot to switch to \'No new work\' and got 99 WUs in a few hours\' time! No chance to finish them before they will be reissued 5 days after the deadline...

                                                                            Robert
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                                                                            Message 4224 - Posted 6 Oct 2006 20:06:43 UTC - in response to Message 4223.

                                                                              Last modified: 6 Oct 2006 20:19:10 UTC

                                                                              I don\'t crunch the wus 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-xxx
                                                                              I don\'t know why but that seems \'mission impossible\' and i don\'t want to get the message \'Maximum CPU time exceeded\'.

                                                                              Nightbird, I think that they are so easy to crunch. I just finished 3 of them in nearly 7 hours on a Windows system (12045, 12078 and 12088). So? Mission possible!

                                                                              But on another computer I need nearly 100 hours to crunch 1 of those WUs. That\'s not a problem in itself, but the server went mad when I downloaded them. I forgot to switch to \'No new work\' and got 99 WUs in a few hours\' time! No chance to finish them before they will be reissued 5 days after the deadline...

                                                                              Robert

                                                                              Ehm, Robert, your (short) wus have been created 1 Oct 2006 and my (long) wus have been created 14 sept. 2006.
                                                                              You can look my computer (id 1979). For every 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-xxx that i aborted or kept, i didn\'t find anybody who successed with them excepted wuid=1304 ; wuid=1296 (2 Linux users and we know that Linux is faster than Windows).

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                                                                              Message 4225 - Posted 7 Oct 2006 3:22:54 UTC

                                                                                Sorry guys, this project is dead in my opinion. It\'s been fun crunching with you.

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                                                                                Message 4226 - Posted 7 Oct 2006 6:16:46 UTC - in response to Message 4225.

                                                                                  I concur. I\'m getting out before I waste too much of my CPU\'s time. SETI-, Einstein- and Rosetta@home are better uses of my idle processor time. I submitted 1 result (over 37 hr, mostly while suspending the other 3 BOINC projects) about 9 days ago and haven\'t even been able to get another WU yet. I have broadband, my internet connection is open always. And now I read that the WU I sent in may never get validated anyway (3 indpendent rsults needed). This is just way too complicated and most of all poorly run. I too don\'t care that much for the credits but do wish to contribute in a positive way to a deserving project. Us crunchers aren\'t the problem, we\'re the solution, so treat us accordingly!

                                                                                  Sorry guys, this project is dead in my opinion. It\'s been fun crunching with you.


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                                                                                  Message 4227 - Posted 7 Oct 2006 11:00:59 UTC - in response to Message 4220.

                                                                                    WU # 419 Just errored MAX CPU time. This is # 5 with OVER 200+ CPU hours wasted. yet my account only show 4. I still have 1 running with over 257 CPU hours... I wonder how long before this DIES? the other 3 are under 60 hours.

                                                                                    10/6/2006 1:32:37 AM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Unrecoverable error for result 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_eb496c67-de9a-4480-9619-8b5ceb8a73d8_208_1 (Maximum CPU time exceeded)

                                                                                    Well, that\'s it for me. Another 200 hours down the drain, see here. I shan\'t be back. Mike
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                                                                                    Message 4236 - Posted 9 Oct 2006 20:23:14 UTC

                                                                                      Last modified: 9 Oct 2006 20:33:46 UTC

                                                                                      It\'s not possible to create a new thread

                                                                                      The url would be :
                                                                                      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/forum_post.php?id=9

                                                                                      You get :
                                                                                      404 Not Found

                                                                                      The requested URL /szdg/forum_post.php was not found on this server.

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                                                                                      Message 4237 - Posted 9 Oct 2006 20:42:45 UTC

                                                                                        Last modified: 9 Oct 2006 21:08:18 UTC

                                                                                        So, an other problem :

                                                                                        minimum quorum 3
                                                                                        initial replication 4


                                                                                        wus : 1316, 1309, 1307, 1295

                                                                                        The fourth result has been not sent (why ? and why an replication = 4 since usually the initial replication = 3)

                                                                                        The quorum would be reached if the initial replication was = 3...

                                                                                        Check your wus please and report.

                                                                                        Thanks
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                                                                                        Message 4239 - Posted 10 Oct 2006 0:42:23 UTC

                                                                                          Hi, Adam!

                                                                                          I am reposting the last of my messages responding to message 4202 in Forum New applications 2.0 /2.03 online - Feedback in case you have missed it. Do you have time to address my conjectures on the methods of implementing the algorithm?

                                                                                          George
                                                                                          ------

                                                                                          ....

                                                                                          I get the feeling that SZTAKI Desktop Grid is recursing to deep levels, and may even be overflowing the 32-bit memory space of stacks on older architectures. That would certainly explain why some computations crash, why some seem to be spinning, and why some get wrong answers. I would be interested to read about the theoretical basis for the computational sieve used in this program, and about the numerical algorithms being used to make the computation on a finite machine. Is this information readily available?

                                                                                          George
                                                                                          ------


                                                                                          I have just reread the details of the project. The implication is that it finished in December 2005, on the basis of the Results page, so maybe we are doing something different now. If not, then we are busy calculaing characteristic polynomials. I believe that there is considerable literature on stable algorithms to compute such polynomials. So, my comment above reduces to: has the literature on numberical computation of charactaristic polynomials been researched, and are the best of these being used?

                                                                                          George
                                                                                          ------


                                                                                          The WU on my Athlon Duo running Windows XP Pro timed out last night. I had a look at the error messages. It appears that checkpointing is very primative: it just restarts a line that it has been working on. Not too good. No wonder there is no progress. Am I wrong (I hope)?

                                                                                          As these WUs time out, there will be no more downloading of new WUs until I hear some answers to my questions. I will be reposting this message to Adam\'s page, in case he isn\'t monitoring: I can imagine that he is pretty busy.

                                                                                          George
                                                                                          ------


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                                                                                          Message 4240 - Posted 10 Oct 2006 1:29:29 UTC - in response to Message 4237.

                                                                                            Last modified: 10 Oct 2006 1:30:15 UTC

                                                                                            Check your wus please and report.


                                                                                            A couple of days ago I found that even when the quorum of three is reached, credit is not granted. Perhaps the server is unable to believe that something in this project actually succeeded?

                                                                                            WU1586

                                                                                            I didn\'t have the heart to report yet another problem.

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                                                                                            Message 4241 - Posted 10 Oct 2006 5:28:08 UTC - in response to Message 4237.

                                                                                              Last modified: 10 Oct 2006 5:29:03 UTC

                                                                                              So, an other problem :

                                                                                              minimum quorum 3
                                                                                              initial replication 4


                                                                                              wus : 1316, 1309, 1307, 1295

                                                                                              The fourth result has been not sent (why ? and why an replication = 4 since usually the initial replication = 3)

                                                                                              The quorum would be reached if the initial replication was = 3...

                                                                                              Check your wus please and report.

                                                                                              Thanks

                                                                                              The initial replication for wu 1316 had been 3 at the start. The fourth result was only created a few seconds after the third one was sent back after completion. I guess that if a fourth wu is created because another one has a computational error or is aborted, then the initial replication number remains 3, and if the fourth wu is created for no visible reason (probably the 3 results differ), then the initial replication number is set to 4.
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                                                                                              Message 4242 - Posted 10 Oct 2006 5:33:02 UTC - in response to Message 4240.

                                                                                                Last modified: 10 Oct 2006 5:33:17 UTC

                                                                                                Check your wus please and report.


                                                                                                A couple of days ago I found that even when the quorum of three is reached, credit is not granted. Perhaps the server is unable to believe that something in this project actually succeeded?

                                                                                                WU1586

                                                                                                I didn\'t have the heart to report yet another problem.

                                                                                                Instead of granting credit, the server created a new WU 12 seconds after the third result was sent back. Probably the 3 initial WUs cannot agree on a correct result. After completion of the fourth WU, credit will be granted to the 3 ones that have the same result.
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                                                                                                Message 4244 - Posted 10 Oct 2006 10:23:51 UTC

                                                                                                  gwg,

                                                                                                  you\'re right.
                                                                                                  I\'m constantly consulting with the mathematicians who develop the algorithm.

                                                                                                  They\'re working on de-recursifing (is there such word :-) the algorithm, but they are not ready yet.

                                                                                                  I\'ll keep you updated...and I hope I can soon release a new version...
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                                                                                                  Message 4255 - Posted 10 Oct 2006 18:24:04 UTC - in response to Message 4242.

                                                                                                    Last modified: 10 Oct 2006 19:12:36 UTC

                                                                                                    Check your wus please and report.


                                                                                                    A couple of days ago I found that even when the quorum of three is reached, credit is not granted. Perhaps the server is unable to believe that something in this project actually succeeded?

                                                                                                    WU1586

                                                                                                    I didn\'t have the heart to report yet another problem.

                                                                                                    Instead of granting credit, the server created a new WU 12 seconds after the third result was sent back. Probably the 3 initial WUs cannot agree on a correct result. After completion of the fourth WU, credit will be granted to the 3 ones that have the same result.

                                                                                                    When a wu is created with an initial replication = 4, the 4 results are sent together and not 3 then \"later\" 1.
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                                                                                                    Message 4262 - Posted 10 Oct 2006 22:48:36 UTC

                                                                                                      I have a couple of observations. The first is that as an AMD user, I\'m very hard done to. Take a look at this work unit. Firstly, I know I\'m somewhat overclaiming since that machine still has 5.5.0 on it, but I reckon that for a 2.3 GHz Athlon XP that spent the best part of two days solid crunching that I deserve more than 103 credits. I feel bad for the guy with the Athlon 64 that spent longer than I did and got the same amount.

                                                                                                      To that end, I\'d enforce the platform thing, so that people got fair credit.

                                                                                                      I\'m also a bit miffed about this result. I persevered for 4 days, with it slowly creeping up towards completion, and then all of a sudden it fails. That\'s not cool, it\'s not my computer\'s fault. I\'d be happy to run this project if I got a decent return from it. I donate my computer power for free, all I ask in return is credits.
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                                                                                                      Message 4263 - Posted 11 Oct 2006 0:37:33 UTC - in response to Message 4244.

                                                                                                        gwg,

                                                                                                        you\'re right.
                                                                                                        I\'m constantly consulting with the mathematicians who develop the algorithm.

                                                                                                        They\'re working on de-recursifing (is there such word :-)


                                                                                                        Nope. In Magyar, since it is a synthetic language (ie, it constructs new words from its own basis), one can probably do this. The Germans do it all the time. English usually tries to make up a word based on Latin or Greek (analytic language), such as the word recursion itself. When that fails, we fall back on synthesis, but synthesis of an analytic addition often gets too complicated in a largely uninflected language. In Computer Science, we tend to say that we are unwinding[/], [i]unrolling, or unfolding the recursion.

                                                                                                        the algorithm, but they are not ready yet.

                                                                                                        I\'ll keep you updated...and I hope I can soon release a new version...


                                                                                                        When you say I am right, are you confirming that you can\'t checkpoint in the middle of the recursion? That is what I suspect, as it really means storing the computational image, and it explains why an interruption can cause so much loss of time. By implication, for deeply recursive algorithms, the algorithm needs to save its own image as a checkpoint, and to restart at the checkpoint by executing it, if the algorithm is restarted and is in its initiation code. There are ways to do this in UNIX™ - like OSs, but how to do in Windows?

                                                                                                        George
                                                                                                        ------
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                                                                                                        Message 4275 - Posted 12 Oct 2006 21:59:10 UTC

                                                                                                          Last modified: 12 Oct 2006 22:00:36 UTC

                                                                                                          Would it be possible to have a explanation on what happens here, what is the situation of Sztaki? If you look the stats, the project RAC is around 3000 credits. Is there no work, bad work, ...
                                                                                                          Is this project still alive or is it dead and so there\'s nobody to says it?
                                                                                                          The only things we see is people with WU problems. So ....
                                                                                                          Thanks

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                                                                                                          Message 4278 - Posted 13 Oct 2006 3:10:26 UTC - in response to Message 4275.

                                                                                                            Last modified: 13 Oct 2006 3:12:13 UTC

                                                                                                            […] Is there no work, bad work, ...
                                                                                                            Is this project still alive or is it dead and so there\'s nobody to says it?
                                                                                                            The only things we see is people with WU problems.

                                                                                                            As I see it, “bad work” is close, but an overstatement—difficult work would be more accurate.

                                                                                                            I believe the main problem is that the WUs, or the search application’s recursion routines, are very unpredictable, which creates a number of obstacles in the workflow, so to speak. BOINC’s scheduling is thrown off by large discrepancies between actual and expected run times, causing a high incidence of missed deadlines. Participants see completion estimates climbing instead of falling, so they abort tasks that don’t seem to be making progress. Some tasks run so long that they exceed BOINC’s ‘failsafe’ limit (which is hundreds of hours for most systems), causing an error and losing a great deal of time. Results submitted by different systems on a given WU seem to disagree more often than in other projects I run, and even when they’re successfully validated the reported times sometimes vary wildly—and of course the credit claims likewise—which makes me wonder about the stability of the program.

                                                                                                            The Achievements page hasn’t been updated for over a year, since the completion of the ten-dimensional matrices; we’re doing twelve-dimensional matrices now. This may contribute to the disaffection of participants already frustrated by the computing difficulties.

                                                                                                            That said, it’s my impression that advances are being made—I wouldn’t still be here otherwise … There’s apparently only Ádám working for the project, so it’s understandable that progress can be slow while he’s juggling the conflicting demands of programming, server & website maintenance, answering questions on this forum, analyzing completed results, keeping his supervisors informed, and whatever other ‘outside’ duties his position requires. He might even have a personal life! From my own POV, while crunching is often an uphill struggle, I’m gradually turning in some results, and a few have even been validated—so persistence is certainly not entirely without reward.

                                                                                                            Regarding the overwhelming majority of postings that are complaints or reports of problems, since there’s so little traffic in the ‘help desk’ areas, people tend to congregate in the active threads here. And it’s only natural that difficulties come to the fore: ‘happy campers’ have little reason to post.

                                                                                                            Disclaimer: The above are just my opinions based on my experience as a casual contributor. I can’t speak for the project in any other capacity.
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                                                                                                            Message 4281 - Posted 13 Oct 2006 5:39:18 UTC - in response to Message 4278.

                                                                                                              ‘happy campers’ have little reason to post.

                                                                                                              Why not? Why should always the NO-sayers speak loud? I suggest that Nightbird opens a thread where we can tell Ádám and his organization that we are \'happy campers\' and that we will go on granting them our support.

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                                                                                                              Message 4282 - Posted 13 Oct 2006 6:07:47 UTC - in response to Message 4281.

                                                                                                                Last modified: 15 Oct 2006 16:23:20 UTC

                                                                                                                ‘happy campers’ have little reason to post.

                                                                                                                Why not? Why should always the NO-sayers speak loud? I suggest that Nightbird opens a thread where we can tell Ádám and his organization that we are \'happy campers\' and that we will go on granting them our support.

                                                                                                                Atm, it\'s not possible to create a new thread.
                                                                                                                The url would be :
                                                                                                                http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/forum_post.php?id=9
                                                                                                                same id=10 and id=11
                                                                                                                but if you try it, you will get an error 404.
                                                                                                                I have notified Adam but we need that he fixes this \"little problem\" quickly.

                                                                                                                edit :
                                                                                                                problem fixed




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                                                                                                                Message 4285 - Posted 13 Oct 2006 12:10:08 UTC

                                                                                                                  Adam,
                                                                                                                  This is the 6th to FAIL.... WU (826) had OVER 400 CPU hours before it aborted...? 4 WUs at 200+ CPU Hours
                                                                                                                  Now there was over 1200 CPU hours I\'ve spent with SZTAKI... any explanations?

                                                                                                                  Seems to me 1200+ CPU Hours WAISTED deserve an explanation.
                                                                                                                  Does BOINC know I\'m WASITING CPU hours that could be used for other Groups?

                                                                                                                  Respectfully,
                                                                                                                  Bob


                                                                                                                  10/13/2006 3:42:50 AM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Aborting task 21b342bd-9be3-49d2-8c12-48e176df7b34_2bd59845-786b-4e96-b165-c93c63338566_382_2: exceeded CPU time limit 1451428.571429
                                                                                                                  10/13/2006 3:42:50 AM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Unrecoverable error for result 21b342bd-9be3-49d2-8c12-48e176df7b34_2bd59845-786b-4e96-b165-c93c63338566_382_2 (Maximum CPU time exceeded)
                                                                                                                  10/13/2006 3:42:57 AM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Computation for task 21b342bd-9be3-49d2-8c12-48e176df7b34_2bd59845-786b-4e96-b165-c93c63338566_382_2 finished

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                                                                                                                  Message 4287 - Posted 13 Oct 2006 14:15:27 UTC

                                                                                                                    Hi, Adam!

                                                                                                                    At 2006-10-13 13:56:38, I aborted WUs 1505 and 1530 running on computer id 147117. They probably should have been aborted days ago, because it was clear that there would be no quorum for the WUs, but I was interested to see if they would actually finish before the Report Deadline. That deadline passed earlier today.

                                                                                                                    Sztaki Desktop Grid is currently set to get no new tasks on both computers doing work for it. I will continue to monitor the Message Boards to see if the project team can get a handle on the computation algorithm such that computation times to successfully complete a WU can be reduced to a tractable size, and such that the results are independent of the machine architecture or operating system used for the computation.

                                                                                                                    I wish you success,

                                                                                                                    George
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                                                                                                                    Message 4290 - Posted 13 Oct 2006 17:25:00 UTC

                                                                                                                      The following workunits have only been completed by my computer. The others all ran over the time limit. Will others be receiving these units? Will I get credit for these?

                                                                                                                      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=1566
                                                                                                                      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=1568
                                                                                                                      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=1580
                                                                                                                      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=1592
                                                                                                                      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=1596

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                                                                                                                      Message 4291 - Posted 13 Oct 2006 17:56:16 UTC - in response to Message 4290.

                                                                                                                        Last modified: 13 Oct 2006 17:58:02 UTC

                                                                                                                        The following workunits have only been completed by my computer. The others all ran over the time limit. Will others be receiving these units? Will I get credit for these?

                                                                                                                        Yes, other people will get them. The replacement WUs have already been created, but as there is a queue of more or less 9 days, they will be issued around October 22nd. If the original crunchers send their results in before the replacement units are sent out, their result will be accepted and the new units will be deleted. The chance that this will happen during these 9 days is small. So you must be prepared to wait several weeks until you get all your credits, as you can not be sure that the new crunchers will all crunch their units in time, which will make the system create a third round of units for those that might still be missing. As soon as 3 identical results have been sent in, the validator program will instantly accept your result and give you your credits. You will need some patience until you get your reward, but your work has not been in vain.

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                                                                                                                        Message 4295 - Posted 14 Oct 2006 0:25:50 UTC

                                                                                                                          This is the final update of WU 2478 as I have, reluctantly aborted it after the deadline passed. The final CPU time was 232 hours and progress was 20%. Regarding the two other computers crunching this unit, one has aborted and the other has no reply. I have set all computers attached to the project to \"no new work\". I shall continue to monitor the situation and when the computation time problem is solved, I will surely return to the project.

                                                                                                                          Philip
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                                                                                                                          Message 4316 - Posted 15 Oct 2006 16:21:00 UTC - in response to Message 4291.

                                                                                                                            The following workunits have only been completed by my computer. The others all ran over the time limit. Will others be receiving these units? Will I get credit for these?

                                                                                                                            Yes, other people will get them. The replacement WUs have already been created, but as there is a queue of more or less 9 days, they will be issued around October 22nd. If the original crunchers send their results in before the replacement units are sent out, their result will be accepted and the new units will be deleted. The chance that this will happen during these 9 days is small. So you must be prepared to wait several weeks until you get all your credits, as you can not be sure that the new crunchers will all crunch their units in time, which will make the system create a third round of units for those that might still be missing. As soon as 3 identical results have been sent in, the validator program will instantly accept your result and give you your credits. You will need some patience until you get your reward, but your work has not been in vain.

                                                                                                                            That will difficult for the wu 1596, a 1a9d6387 created in sept. so something \'mission impossible\' for a MS user.
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                                                                                                                            Message 4326 - Posted 16 Oct 2006 8:24:32 UTC

                                                                                                                              New 2.01 version for the windows platform is out to resolve the problem of speed difference between linux and windows. Feedback\'s to the new thread, please.

                                                                                                                              2.01-es verziószámmal új windowsos alkalmazás került kiadásra, mely a windwos és linux verziók között tapasztalható sebességkülönbséget hivatott orvosolni. Észrevételeket az <> írjátok meg.
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                                                                                                                              Message 4329 - Posted 16 Oct 2006 9:07:03 UTC - in response to Message 4326.

                                                                                                                                New 2.01 version for the windows platform is out to resolve the problem of speed difference between linux and windows. Feedback\'s to the new thread, please.

                                                                                                                                2.01-es verziószámmal új windowsos alkalmazás került kiadásra, mely a windwos és linux verziók között tapasztalható sebességkülönbséget hivatott orvosolni. Észrevételeket az <> írjátok meg.

                                                                                                                                Whats\' aboaut a Macintosh-Version, will there also be a new Version?
                                                                                                                                There are sometimes also great differences in the speed I guess
                                                                                                                                Please look at this WU fo an example.
                                                                                                                                Sorry Adam, I think you are busy, but this is very important for me, as I use use Macintosh.

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                                                                                                                                Message 4337 - Posted 16 Oct 2006 17:57:11 UTC - in response to Message 4329.

                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 16 Oct 2006 17:58:58 UTC

                                                                                                                                  Please look at this WU fo an example.
                                                                                                                                  Sorry Adam, I think you are busy, but this is very important for me, as I use use Macintosh.

                                                                                                                                  Here’s an example of a set of valid results showing an enormous difference in times: Nº 6819. I got half of what I claimed, while some lucky cruncher got fifteen times more.
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                                                                                                                                  Message 4348 - Posted 17 Oct 2006 3:02:57 UTC - in response to Message 4329.

                                                                                                                                    New 2.01 version for the windows platform is out to resolve the problem of speed difference between linux and windows. Feedback\'s to the new thread, please.

                                                                                                                                    2.01-es verziószámmal új windowsos alkalmazás került kiadásra, mely a windwos és linux verziók között tapasztalható sebességkülönbséget hivatott orvosolni. Észrevételeket az <> írjátok meg.

                                                                                                                                    Whats\' aboaut a Macintosh-Version, will there also be a new Version?
                                                                                                                                    There are sometimes also great differences in the speed I guess
                                                                                                                                    Please look at this WU fo an example.
                                                                                                                                    Sorry Adam, I think you are busy, but this is very important for me, as I use use Macintosh.


                                                                                                                                    Same here for me. Three of my four machines are macs.

                                                                                                                                    George
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                                                                                                                                    Message 4366 - Posted 18 Oct 2006 14:14:45 UTC

                                                                                                                                      Tried to download some new WUs and it seems that I am lucky today. All WUs completed in short time. They are

                                                                                                                                      WU 18226 0f740a11-ddf9-... completed in 0.5 hr
                                                                                                                                      WU 18224 247cb2c2-8265-... completed in a little less than 1 hr
                                                                                                                                      WU 16751 21b342bd-9be3-... completed in 6.7 hrs

                                                                                                                                      All units created on 1 Oct and they were crunched on my PC with Pentium 4 CPU 2.80GHz.

                                                                                                                                      Philip
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                                                                                                                                      Message 4368 - Posted 18 Oct 2006 14:59:58 UTC


                                                                                                                                        I just downloaded some work to give the new version a try.

                                                                                                                                        The estimate is for one hour and 59 seconds.

                                                                                                                                        I\'ll abort it (and all the ready to run tasks) if it is still running tomorrow.

                                                                                                                                        It\'s not very promising so far 11 minutes spent and 0.00% complete.

                                                                                                                                        10/17/2006 10:28:48 PM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Starting task 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_ec225637-6564-4f88-bb1d-65b4bff1c0a6_3539_1 using search version 201


                                                                                                                                        I\'ve now let this work unit run for 55 minutes and it still shows ZERO percent complete - and still shows 1 hour as completion time.

                                                                                                                                        I\'ve decided to SUSPEND and RESET the project until I hear it is working better.

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                                                                                                                                        Message 4373 - Posted 18 Oct 2006 18:52:02 UTC - in response to Message 4368.



                                                                                                                                          I\'ve now let this work unit run for 55 minutes and it still shows ZERO percent complete - and still shows 1 hour as completion time.

                                                                                                                                          I\'ve decided to SUSPEND and RESET the project until I hear it is working better.


                                                                                                                                          IMO, this project is more like a marathon than a sprint. You won\'t see credit right away and WUs can take quite some time to complete. But it\'s not like a regular marathon, it\'s more like a marathon of unknown distance in the dark and you don\'t know that you\'re finished (or reached a checkpoint) until you break the tape and you\'re actually there. I have completed many WUs with only knowing that the CPU Time is climbing. You will NOT get instant gratification on this project, nor will you get the most credits per second of CPU time. If these things are important to you: don\'t complain, just find a different project. The science/mathematics matters to me.
                                                                                                                                          ____________
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                                                                                                                                          Message 4382 - Posted 19 Oct 2006 2:41:42 UTC - in response to Message 4373.

                                                                                                                                            Last modified: 19 Oct 2006 2:44:08 UTC



                                                                                                                                            I\'ve now let this work unit run for 55 minutes and it still shows ZERO percent complete - and still shows 1 hour as completion time.

                                                                                                                                            I\'ve decided to SUSPEND and RESET the project until I hear it is working better.


                                                                                                                                            IMO, this project is more like a marathon than a sprint.


                                                                                                                                            ?? WHAT data do you base this assertion on???
                                                                                                                                            Did not the PROJECT make the estimate of 1:00 hour to complete??


                                                                                                                                            You won\'t see credit right away and WUs can take quite some time to complete.

                                                                                                                                            ??Then why provide a bogus estimate??
                                                                                                                                            If the estimate had been 200 hours, I would have responded differently.

                                                                                                                                            But it\'s not like a regular marathon, it\'s more like a marathon of unknown distance in the dark and you don\'t know that you\'re finished (or reached a checkpoint) until you break the tape and you\'re actually there.
                                                                                                                                            I have completed many WUs with only knowing that the CPU Time is climbing.

                                                                                                                                            ??And your point is what???

                                                                                                                                            You will NOT get instant gratification on this project,

                                                                                                                                            ****Gratitous insult noted****.
                                                                                                                                            - I\'m not is seeking \"instant gratification\" -

                                                                                                                                            I would, however like a clear, cogent explanation of either:
                                                                                                                                            a) The project isn\'t really working, but we don\'t know why.
                                                                                                                                            b) It isn\'t working but we do know why and hope to have a fix in xxx months, days or years.
                                                                                                                                            c) The project isn\'t working, but we need you to keep trying in order to work out the \"bugs\".
                                                                                                                                            d) The project IS working.

                                                                                                                                            Adam, if you could provide a simple \"state of the project\" thread, I would appreciate it.


                                                                                                                                            nor will you get the most credits per second of CPU time.

                                                                                                                                            ?? again what is your data to support this assertion??
                                                                                                                                            When I first ran SZTAKI, It was in fact the project that performed best on my CPU.
                                                                                                                                            Now, I can\'t tell what it is doing.
                                                                                                                                            The time estimates are meaningless and the percent complete is \"stuck\" on zero.
                                                                                                                                            It wasn\'t like this \"before.\"

                                                                                                                                            That wouldn\'t be so troubling, but there is no clarification from ADAM as to \"what is going on???\"

                                                                                                                                            If these things are important to you: don\'t complain, just find a different project.

                                                                                                                                            ***If you don\'t like my \"complaining,\" how about if YOU go to another project***

                                                                                                                                            I actually wasn\'t complaining (until your post). Rather, I was trying to help by reporting factually what is happening in hopes that some data would help the developers make the application perform rationally and the estimates of value.


                                                                                                                                            The science/mathematics matters to me.

                                                                                                                                            **Good - it matters to me too.
                                                                                                                                            That is why it is so frustrating when I waste computation on workunits that don\'t perform rationally.

                                                                                                                                            This was one of the first projects I joined.

                                                                                                                                            I come back here from time-to-time to see if it is behaving rationally again.
                                                                                                                                            There was a new version posted with a request to test it.
                                                                                                                                            I did so.
                                                                                                                                            I reported my results.
                                                                                                                                            I intend to stop back again in a few weeks and try again.
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                                                                                                                                            Message 4389 - Posted 19 Oct 2006 15:43:33 UTC - in response to Message 4366.

                                                                                                                                              Tried to download some new WUs and it seems that I am lucky today. All WUs completed in short time. They are

                                                                                                                                              WU 18226 0f740a11-ddf9-... completed in 0.5 hr
                                                                                                                                              WU 16751 247cb2c2-8265-... completed in a little less than 1 hr
                                                                                                                                              WU 16731 21b342bd-9be3-... completed in 6.7 hrs

                                                                                                                                              All units created on 1 Oct and they were crunched on my PC with Pentium 4 CPU 2.80GHz.

                                                                                                                                              Philip


                                                                                                                                              I am happy to report that 4 more WUs have been completed since my last post. They are

                                                                                                                                              WU 18716 21b342bd-9be3-... completed in 3.7 hrs
                                                                                                                                              WU 18648 247cb2c2-8265-... completed in a little less than 2 hrs
                                                                                                                                              WU 18481 247cb2c2-8265-... completed in 2.4 hrs
                                                                                                                                              WU 18224 21b342bd-9be3-... completed in 25 hrs

                                                                                                                                              I would think that the new WUs are acceptable. Of course, it would be much better if the WUs could give crunchers a realistic idea of how much time they may take and show progress. However, if the present algorithm and the BOINC software are unable to give us what we want, we should accept as is to keep the project running. We have to work to progress.

                                                                                                                                              Philip
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                                                                                                                                              Message 4390 - Posted 19 Oct 2006 15:53:19 UTC - in response to Message 4382.

                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 19 Oct 2006 15:56:59 UTC

                                                                                                                                                @Philip: I did not intend to offend you or insult you in any way. I apologize if I have. If I hurt your feelings, I am sorry.

                                                                                                                                                The point of my post was just that, a post of my opinion.


                                                                                                                                                • I feel that it is a marathon because: WUs can take 100+ hrs to complete (some never do)
                                                                                                                                                • The first WUs I received estimated about 2 hrs to complete. 17 WUs later, the estimates are around 80 hrs based on past experience. Other threads (my apologies, I do not recall which thread it was) say the time to completion is impossible to predict since the algorithm includes a recursive funtion.
                                                                                                                                                • My point is: these are my thoughts from what I have read in the forum and from my experience with the project. I crunch on faith that the WU will complete, but I don\'t know when, I don\'t know how far I\'ve gone, and I don\'t know how far is left to go.
                                                                                                                                                • The post was not directed at you, Philip, also there was no insult to be gratuitous. Just my opinion and my observation.
                                                                                                                                                • As far as the credit per CPU second: SZTAKI vs Einstein (for example). Certain Einstein WUs get roughly twice the credit per CPU second than SZTAKI (based on claimed credit since I do not have any granted credit here yet).
                                                                                                                                                • The % complete jumps with the number of completed lines. A single line WU will stay at 0% then jump to 100% complete when it is in fact completed. A 20 line WU will jump in 5% increments.
                                                                                                                                                • Some people crunch for the credits and want numbers by their name for the competition, obviously both Philip and I are in this together not for the credits/competition, but for the end result. I have read many posts that indicate the user is only in it for the credits, and this project is not for them.
                                                                                                                                                • I agree, it is frustrating at times.



                                                                                                                                                Again, I am sorry for the misunderstanding Philip, happy crunching.

                                                                                                                                                [edit]fixed links[/edit]
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                                                                                                                                                Message 4391 - Posted 19 Oct 2006 16:07:53 UTC - in response to Message 4373.



                                                                                                                                                  I\'ve now let this work unit run for 55 minutes and it still shows ZERO percent complete - and still shows 1 hour as completion time.

                                                                                                                                                  I\'ve decided to SUSPEND and RESET the project until I hear it is working better.


                                                                                                                                                  IMO, this project is more like a marathon than a sprint. You won\'t see credit right away and WUs can take quite some time to complete. But it\'s not like a regular marathon, it\'s more like a marathon of unknown distance in the dark and you don\'t know that you\'re finished (or reached a checkpoint) until you break the tape and you\'re actually there. I have completed many WUs with only knowing that the CPU Time is climbing. You will NOT get instant gratification on this project, nor will you get the most credits per second of CPU time. If these things are important to you: don\'t complain, just find a different project. The science/mathematics matters to me.


                                                                                                                                                  Well said!!!

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                                                                                                                                                  Message 4392 - Posted 19 Oct 2006 18:57:15 UTC - in response to Message 4390.

                                                                                                                                                    @Philip: I did not intend to offend you or insult you in any way. I apologize if I have. If I hurt your feelings, I am sorry.
                                                                                                                                                    ....


                                                                                                                                                    Thank you for your fine spirited apology.
                                                                                                                                                    I of course accept.

                                                                                                                                                    Perhaps a more apt analogy would be to an exploration like that of Lewis and Clark.
                                                                                                                                                    A marathon by definition is of known length, and known conditions.

                                                                                                                                                    I really am not \"in it for the credits.\"
                                                                                                                                                    I like them. But they aren\'t my goal.

                                                                                                                                                    Rather, my frustration, which your post triggered stems from the misleading estimates and lack of clear information regarding the state of the project.
                                                                                                                                                    Its not the credits I\'m interested in.
                                                                                                                                                    I want to avoid waisting computer power.
                                                                                                                                                    I can and do contribute at Rosetta and LHC when possible.

                                                                                                                                                    I wanted to post a bit of valid feedback regarding the new version.
                                                                                                                                                    It appears to still need work.
                                                                                                                                                    Misleading estimates are just that. Misleading.

                                                                                                                                                    I am content to periodically check in and contribute some computation to \"check out\" fixes.
                                                                                                                                                    But, I want to \"know what I\'m getting in to\" when doing it.

                                                                                                                                                    I would like to see a simple, honest message on the home page like:
                                                                                                                                                    \"We have a new version.\"
                                                                                                                                                    \"Please help us by testing it.\"
                                                                                                                                                    \"Run times are erratic and unpredicable.\"
                                                                                                                                                    \"Run time estimates are not to be trusted.\"
                                                                                                                                                    \"Please help us by trying the new version and reporting back.\"

                                                                                                                                                    That would let us know that we were doing valuable work in TESTING the app.

                                                                                                                                                    As it is, you and I can share analogies and speculation, but we don\'t really know what is happening.

                                                                                                                                                    Thanks again for your clarification.
                                                                                                                                                    My apoligies to you for taking it so personally.

                                                                                                                                                    Phil




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                                                                                                                                                    Message 4394 - Posted 19 Oct 2006 19:21:03 UTC

                                                                                                                                                      @ Larry and Philip,

                                                                                                                                                      I couldn\'t have said it better. I agree 100% with both of you. And, happily, I now realize it\'s the project that Schitzophrenic (and not me). ;-)
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                                                                                                                                                      Message 4438 - Posted 23 Oct 2006 6:17:07 UTC

                                                                                                                                                        Is this the correct place to post this? I don\'t know but I\'m sure some helpful cruncher can tell me.

                                                                                                                                                        I just returned this wu which bombed at 206hours. I left it running as it is a two liner (I think) that went to 50% at about 80h and I thought it would be okay. Next time I check the computer, I have a cpu time exceeded message. :(

                                                                                                                                                        I also have this wu at ~84h and 20% (which unsurprisingly no-one has successfully returned) and a final one at 60% after ~56h, both due back a week ago.

                                                                                                                                                        So that looks like ~340hours of cpu time wasted, not to mention the circa 1900 credits that the time is worth. For the moment I\'ll leave the final one running as it has a vague hope of finishing but I don\'t know what to do about the middle one. I don\'t like to write off nearly a hundred hours but it looks like continuing will just mean writing off another two hundred. :(

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                                                                                                                                                        Message 4452 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 7:19:54 UTC

                                                                                                                                                          Please, fix/upgrade the forum code where once subscribed to a thread, e-mail notofication are going every new post made ad infinitum.

                                                                                                                                                          Correct behaviour is to send a notification only once; attribute got reseted when a user visits particular thread again (assuming reading it) and sending notification to a user is again allowed.

                                                                                                                                                          (I\'ve subscribed to a \"New application L2.03 / W2.01 / M2.00 - Feedback\" a week ago in my naivity that I would get some feedback from staff; I\'m only getting new and new notification...of more and more bug reports).

                                                                                                                                                          I\'m pretty sure I\'ve suggested to fix this bug several weeks/months ago.

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks in advance.
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                                                                                                                                                          Message 4454 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 9:23:02 UTC

                                                                                                                                                            It took a while till I\'ve managed to get a machine with an AMD heart, but at least I got one. All of my tests shows that the problem with 2.01 is the SSE2 instruction set.
                                                                                                                                                            Before I release the new version, someone please confirm, that the new code does not crash on AMD machines. You can download it manully from here.
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                                                                                                                                                            Message 4459 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 9:33:34 UTC

                                                                                                                                                              Also it would be good if a few of you with Intel processors could test 2.02 before I release it. Thanks.
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                                                                                                                                                              Message 4465 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 10:09:37 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for the feedback, Adam.
                                                                                                                                                                I see that you are also into forum Subscribtion bug.

                                                                                                                                                                (do not poses any older AMDs or Intels to test 2.02 - all my 22 results with 2.01 were fine albeit not validated).
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                                                                                                                                                                Message 4468 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 12:21:54 UTC - in response to Message 4459.

                                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 24 Oct 2006 12:28:13 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                  Also it would be good if a few of you with Intel processors could test 2.02 before I release it. Thanks.


                                                                                                                                                                  I think we need an app_info.xml file to allow 2.02 to run (using the anonymous platform). That is, I downloaded W2.02, installed it in my project folder, and deleted W2.01. But, when I restarted BOINC, it simply downloaded and ran W2.01 again.

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                                                                                                                                                                  Message 4469 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 15:08:16 UTC - in response to Message 4468.

                                                                                                                                                                    Stick,

                                                                                                                                                                    just rename the new version to 2.01, that will do the trick.
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                                                                                                                                                                    Message 4470 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 16:22:42 UTC - in response to Message 4469.

                                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 24 Oct 2006 16:42:00 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                      Stick,

                                                                                                                                                                      just rename the new version to 2.01, that will do the trick.


                                                                                                                                                                      Did it. That is, my Result ID 88211 is currently \"In progress\" using w2.02 (renamed to 2.01). It appears to be running OK and should probably finish in about an hour. So, assuming it does finish (and since my computer was running W2.01 without any problems), about all we will be able to conclude from my unit is that you probably didn\'t screw anything up (for Intel SSE2 processors) in W2.02.

                                                                                                                                                                      OK, it\'s finished! And, even though is says: \"application version 2.01\", I \"swear\" it was done with \"renamed 2.02\".
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                                                                                                                                                                      Message 4471 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 17:33:05 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                        Before I release the new version, someone please confirm, that the new code does not crash on AMD machines. You can download it manually from here.


                                                                                                                                                                        The setup immediately crashed each of the three times I tried to run it.
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                                                                                                                                                                        Message 4472 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 17:52:04 UTC - in response to Message 4471.

                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 24 Oct 2006 17:53:37 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                          Before I release the new version, someone please confirm, that the new code does not crash on AMD machines. You can download it manually from here.


                                                                                                                                                                          The setup immediately crashed each of the three times I tried to run it.


                                                                                                                                                                          Just to make sure you did it correctly (and to help people who are about to try it), did you do the following?

                                                                                                                                                                          1. Exit BOINC;
                                                                                                                                                                          2. Delete the existing program \"search_2.01_windows_intelx86\" from your \"C:\\Program Files\\BOINC\\projects\\szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu_szdg\" folder;
                                                                                                                                                                          3. Copy the new program \"search_2.02_windows_intelx86\" to that same folder;
                                                                                                                                                                          4. Rename the new program to back to \"search_2.01_windows_intelx86\"; and,
                                                                                                                                                                          5. Restart BOINC

                                                                                                                                                                          @ Adam - if I left anything out, please edit.
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                                                                                                                                                                          Message 4473 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 17:55:34 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                            I downloaded W2.02 and renamed it to 2.01, but resulted with same error:
                                                                                                                                                                            89022
                                                                                                                                                                            89017
                                                                                                                                                                            88953
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                                                                                                                                                                            Message 4474 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 18:30:56 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                              Here is a debug version with absolutely no optimization. AMD users please confirm if it runs or not.
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                                                                                                                                                                              Message 4475 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 18:30:58 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                I downloaded W2.02 and renamed it to 2.01, but resulted with same error:


                                                                                                                                                                                I set it up again, following the instructions, and the WU (27645) it downloaded immediately crashed, as usual.
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                                                                                                                                                                                Message 4476 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 18:36:31 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                  Here is a debug version with absolutely no optimization. AMD users please confirm if it runs or not.


                                                                                                                                                                                  Unfortunately it still crashes (twice so far) on my machine.

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                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 4477 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 19:02:18 UTC - in response to Message 4474.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Here is a debug version with absolutely no optimization. AMD users please confirm if it runs or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                    On my AMD Barton and ThunderBird it still crashes.
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                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 4479 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 20:26:15 UTC - in response to Message 4474.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Here is a debug version with absolutely no optimization. AMD users please confirm if it runs or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Szia Ádám!

                                                                                                                                                                                      AuthenticAMD AMD Athlon(TM) XP 1800+:
                                                                                                                                                                                      Kihal egyből :(
                                                                                                                                                                                      Hajrá... Vagy ez a teszt csak az SSE2-t támogatóknak szólt?

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                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 4481 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 22:26:47 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                        The 2.03 (renamed 2.01) doesn\'t crash on my Athlon64 X2 4400+
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 4482 - Posted 24 Oct 2006 23:00:07 UTC - in response to Message 4470.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 24 Oct 2006 23:02:51 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                          Stick,

                                                                                                                                                                                          just rename the new version to 2.01, that will do the trick.


                                                                                                                                                                                          Did it. That is, my Result ID 88211 is currently \"In progress\" using w2.02 (renamed to 2.01). It appears to be running OK and should probably finish in about an hour. So, assuming it does finish (and since my computer was running W2.01 without any problems), about all we will be able to conclude from my unit is that you probably didn\'t screw anything up (for Intel SSE2 processors) in W2.02.

                                                                                                                                                                                          OK, it\'s finished! And, even though is says: \"application version 2.01\", I \"swear\" it was done with \"renamed 2.02\".


                                                                                                                                                                                          For what it is worth, W2.03 (renamed to 2.01) also seems to work on my Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.80GHz - see my Result ID 90879.

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                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 4483 - Posted 25 Oct 2006 5:25:33 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                            AMD athlon XP-M 2600+ -on sem megy az új :( (
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                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 4485 - Posted 25 Oct 2006 6:34:16 UTC - in response to Message 4483.

                                                                                                                                                                                              AMD athlon XP-M 2600+ -on sem megy az új :( (

                                                                                                                                                                                              Yep, the 2.03 doesn\'t work on AMD with SSE instructions or/and 3DNow.


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                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 4486 - Posted 25 Oct 2006 6:35:30 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 25 Oct 2006 6:37:47 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                Nobody with older Intel cpus (Pentium III, Intel Celeron) ?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 4490 - Posted 25 Oct 2006 21:06:54 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nice :-(, so please give me some time to come up with something clever...
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 4492 - Posted 26 Oct 2006 2:15:32 UTC - in response to Message 4486.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nobody with older Intel cpus (Pentium III, Intel Celeron) ?


                                                                                                                                                                                                    My celeron D - 2.53 ghz machine did fine with the following and about 20 others...
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Too soon for them to be validated though...

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_addb5212-b320-482c-adb1-06dfc972b441_1559
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 4493 - Posted 26 Oct 2006 2:15:37 UTC - in response to Message 4486.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Nobody with older Intel cpus (Pentium III, Intel Celeron) ?


                                                                                                                                                                                                      My celeron D - 2.53 ghz machine did fine with the following and about 20 others...
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Too soon for them to be validated though...

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_addb5212-b320-482c-adb1-06dfc972b441_1559
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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 4495 - Posted 26 Oct 2006 8:19:37 UTC - in response to Message 4486.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nobody with older Intel cpus (Pentium III, Intel Celeron) ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Intel Pentium III 940. Wu crashes after start, the same way as on my Athlons.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 4498 - Posted 26 Oct 2006 12:08:12 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                          So, on two different days SZTAKI sent wu\'s to my dual cpu computer and within 1 hour all showed up as client error...bing bing bing...one after the other till they disappeared from sight. ????? so I have put a hold on more work from SZTAKI.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          The dual cpu unit has a pair of athlon 1800 mp\'s and 512,000 memory, plenty of hard drive space, XP OS.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Riesel Sieve, RCN, SIMAP and Einstein are running with no problem. ???????
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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 4525 - Posted 28 Oct 2006 17:20:13 UTC - in response to Message 4498.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Last modified: 28 Oct 2006 17:21:02 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                            So, on two different days SZTAKI sent wu\'s to my dual cpu computer and within 1 hour all showed up as client error...bing bing bing...one after the other till they disappeared from sight. ????? so I have put a hold on more work from SZTAKI.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            The dual cpu unit has a pair of athlon 1800 mp\'s and 512,000 memory, plenty of hard drive space, XP OS.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Riesel Sieve, RCN, SIMAP and Einstein are running with no problem. ???????

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Set the project to \'No New Tasks\' and wait.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            link
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                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 4564 - Posted 2 Nov 2006 15:46:46 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                              No problems using the 2.02 on a P4 1.7GHz with Win XP.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 4604 - Posted 7 Nov 2006 12:05:00 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                you do know that if you use SSE2 extensions you lock out all the older CPUs?!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                P3 has only SSE1, Athlon XP too, an Athlon (without XP or 64) doesn\'t even have SSE1.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                CPUs with SSE2 are Athlon 64, Pentium 4, Pentium M (I think) and newer ones...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                => if 2.01 uses SSE2 it is obvious that the app won\'t run on the CPUs I mentioned above
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 4627 - Posted 9 Nov 2006 16:50:54 UTC - in response to Message 4604.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The problem of AMD machines is not the SSE2 set. There is something with the optimization, but it\'s not SSE2. I\'ve installed a new temporary version, that does not utilize any optimization. This should keep you running, until I solve the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Also there is a new linux version, that solves the GCC 3.3 problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  For Nightbirds request, I\'ve enabled the pending credit feature.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you like BOINC, you may also find CaretCursor to be appealing.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 4633 - Posted 10 Nov 2006 6:13:32 UTC - in response to Message 4627.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    For Nightbirds request, I\'ve enabled the pending credit feature.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Excellent; thank you!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 4678 - Posted 17 Nov 2006 19:07:41 UTC - in response to Message 4498.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      :-) Have done the same, bing bing and a Bing. :-0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Well to be honest it was misbehaving on a 1.5 GHz Centrino, on the P4 3.06 GHz Presscot it is behaving in a fashion both run windows XP Prof.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      On a 1.7 GHz Celron with windows ME it is very very happy? They have both taken to each other like a Duck to water?. Maybe it should be run on back dated hardware and software?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Masud.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So, on two different days SZTAKI sent wu\'s to my dual cpu computer and within 1 hour all showed up as client error...bing bing bing...one after the other till they disappeared from sight. ????? so I have put a hold on more work from SZTAKI.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The dual cpu unit has a pair of athlon 1800 mp\'s and 512,000 memory, plenty of hard drive space, XP OS.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Riesel Sieve, RCN, SIMAP and Einstein are running with no problem. ???????


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 4815 - Posted 26 Nov 2006 22:09:18 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Curiousity has finally overcome my reticence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. How is SZTAKI pronounced?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. What does SZTAKI mean? Is it an acronym or a proper noun or an adjective?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. If it is an acronym, what does it stand for and what does its expansion mean?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        George
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Dr George W Gerrity
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 4818 - Posted 26 Nov 2006 22:30:45 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 27 Nov 2006 1:37:23 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 - No idea ;) but maybe Attis can help ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 - acronym
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          very interesting site



                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 - i quote :


                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About the Name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          MTA SZTAKI is the Hungarian acronym of the Computer and Automation Research Institute of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hungarian Sciences Academy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Magyar Tudományos Akadémia,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Computer and Automation Research Institute
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Számítástechnikai és Automatizálási Kutató Intézet



                                                                                                                                                                                                                          edit :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Laboratory of Parallel and Distributed Systems aka Párhuzamos és Elosztott Rendszerek Kutatólaboratórium

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 4821 - Posted 27 Nov 2006 7:52:17 UTC - in response to Message 4818.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1 - No idea ;) but maybe Attis can help ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            All I know is that Magyar sz represents an “s” sound; s alone is pronounced “sh”, which is apparently why the z is retained in the acronym.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 4824 - Posted 27 Nov 2006 12:36:55 UTC - in response to Message 4821.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              which is apparently why the z is retained in the acronym.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In fact, sz is not only a single sound, but is also considered by Hungarians to be one single letter which has its own place in the alphabet and which is also written like this in abbreviations and in acronyms. The t is pronounced as in English but without aspiration. The a is a short vowel that is pronounced like the a in Washington. The k is also pronounced as in English but again without aspiration. The i is a short vowel that is pronounced like the i in Washington. And, finally, the stress falls on the first syllable.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 4839 - Posted 28 Nov 2006 7:18:10 UTC - in response to Message 4824.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 28 Nov 2006 7:18:40 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In fact, sz is not only a single sound, but is also considered by Hungarians to be one single letter which has its own place in the alphabet and which is also written like this in abbreviations and in acronyms.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I believe Spanish does the same with ch and ll.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 4862 - Posted 29 Nov 2006 6:21:44 UTC - in response to Message 4839.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In fact, sz is not only a single sound, but is also considered by Hungarians to be one single letter which has its own place in the alphabet and which is also written like this in abbreviations and in acronyms.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I believe Spanish does the same with ch and ll.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They removed the \'ellya\'?, \"ll\" from Spanish a couple years ago... well maybe that was just Mexico. Legislated a letter out of the alphabet... I find that funny.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  - da shu @ HeliOS,
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 4863 - Posted 29 Nov 2006 6:24:32 UTC - in response to Message 4815.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Last modified: 29 Nov 2006 6:56:37 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Curiousity has finally overcome my reticence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. How is SZTAKI pronounced?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ------


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Adam pointed me, in a old message on here, to someplace where I was able to make an attempt at it. I don\'t recall it all now but I\'ll take a shot and Adam can bail me out... SHT + AW + KEY but the \"AW\" is more like the \"o\" in the word \"hot\" WHEN a brit says it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    EDIT: Well now I see someone has already given a good answer. It also sounds like they know what they are talking about... and I can\'t delete this :-(
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    - da shu @ HeliOS,
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 4864 - Posted 29 Nov 2006 6:48:34 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 29 Nov 2006 7:03:10 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I\'ve got some really long WUs on a couple machines. I\'m hoping someone can tell me if I\'m just warmin\' my computer shed or if this thing is really working:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The hardware & OS:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      On a Sempron 64 3100 (Palermo) clocked at 2.54GHz in a ePox mobo using an nForce3 250gb chipset, with a single 512MB stick of memory running at DDR562, 10GB HDD, some old used PSU and Win XP Pro on it. It\'s a dedicated BOINC cruncher with nothing else running on it. It\'s been runnning 9 or more active projects since late March w/o problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      11/28/2006 8:06:51 AM|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Restarting task 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_c8b0f653-0c67-4181-a234-8f46999656d3_2000_5 using search version 202

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It\'s at 60% with 24:37:33 CPU time and 10:32:37 remaining!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The original estimated to complete time was 04:19:09.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is it time to give up on this WU or burn another 10 hours of CPU?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 4866 - Posted 29 Nov 2006 8:36:49 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Check if you have chances to be granted credit for this :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I\'ve just finished one of the series you\'re writing about - WU

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Took 100K sec i.e. ~28h on Core Duo :) and no credits granted - too many results I suppose :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 4868 - Posted 29 Nov 2006 12:16:00 UTC - in response to Message 4864.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 29 Nov 2006 12:26:52 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It\'s at 60% with 24:37:33 CPU time and 10:32:37 remaining!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The original estimated to complete time was 04:19:09.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Is it time to give up on this WU or burn another 10 hours of CPU?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This WU isn\'t that big. You will run into trouble around the 200 hours mark, which you will probably not reach. You can\'t figure out the processing time of the remaining lines from the time needed by the first ones, but the probability to need 170 hours to crunch the remaining 40% is extremely small.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Don\'t bother because of the remaining time that is displayed. The nature of this project makes this estimation very hazardous. Furthermore, Boinc tries to learn from the past, but the past in this project had been very irregular. First we had small WUs, then long ones, then again short ones, and now the longer ones are recycled and issued alongside with short ones. The best guessing algorithm gets seasick with such an input. So the estimation is wrong, just don\'t look at it and you will be a happy cruncher...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Right now I\'m crunching one at 60% after 30:49:59, remaining time 44:53:29 and rising. It\'s OK.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 4869 - Posted 29 Nov 2006 13:45:43 UTC - in response to Message 4815.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Curiousity has finally overcome my reticence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. How is SZTAKI pronounced?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. What does SZTAKI mean? Is it an acronym or a proper noun or an adjective?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3. If it is an acronym, what does it stand for and what does its expansion mean?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            George
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ------


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you, everybody for replying to my query. One of the results is that I now know much more about Hungarian research, and especially in my area of interest, Computer Science.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            George
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Dr George W Gerrity
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 4872 - Posted 29 Nov 2006 16:08:12 UTC - in response to Message 4868.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Last modified: 29 Nov 2006 16:20:47 UTC


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Right now I\'m crunching one at 60% after 30:49:59, remaining time 44:53:29 and rising. It\'s OK.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              OK, Thanx for the info. It\'s at 29hrs and showing 6hrs left this morning so it\'s making progress.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The WU also looks like it\'s still \"creditable\" if no one else errors it out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Took 100K sec i.e. ~28h on Core Duo


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Each core at 1.86GHz? Should be roughly close then.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Skip

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              EDIT: Oooopppps wrong machine.. the WU I originally used as an example is now at 26:14 and 11:11 remaining... I\'ll TRY to ignore that remaining time ;-)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 4873 - Posted 29 Nov 2006 16:22:23 UTC - in response to Message 4815.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ... my reticence.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                George
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ------


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                PS: and stop making us hillbillies look up words in the dictionary! ;-)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 4899 - Posted 1 Dec 2006 14:36:35 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Adam,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I hope that you can put an eye on this workunit and my result:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=237
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/result.php?resultid=143687

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It seems that this workunit has generated many invalid result and, in the end, when my pc worked out the whole search it won nothing, as there\'re only 2(including mine) active results but I need 3 to grant my credits.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As this workunit is rather big(10 lines with six(or more?) zeros in the middle, while an easier one on my pc comes in four zeros), it can be assumed that not many people have the perseverance to finish this one. What I really want to know is: is my result correct and is it useful to the research? I don\'t want my pc to compute for such a long time while giving no help to mathematics. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And for the credits, is it possible to be granted if this workunit is regenerated and its result approves mine? The credit for this workunit is even more than my total. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That\'s all...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  All the best,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fwjmath.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 4900 - Posted 1 Dec 2006 15:31:55 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And another thing...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I often watch the checkpoints to kill time, and I\'ve found a potential bug:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Once I opened the checkpoint file, it showed that it was crunching line 9 and my BOINC showed 80% finished. I closed my BOINC then started it again. The percentage jumped to 90%, while from the checkpoint file it was still crunching line 9! Is it a bug? That\'s in 2.02.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And, where can I get the source code of the scientific program? I\'m always wondering what codes are doing in the CPU. :-)
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 4908 - Posted 3 Dec 2006 7:06:37 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi, Adam!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The work units 1462 and 31023 have been hanging around now for quite some time with credit pending and one copy unsent. Could you fix these up, please?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      George
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ------
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 4909 - Posted 3 Dec 2006 10:02:13 UTC - in response to Message 4908.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The work units 1462 and 31023 have been hanging around now for quite some time with credit pending and one copy unsent.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The replacement WUs were created on December 3rd and 2nd, respectively. At this moment there is a waiting queue of 6 days for them to be sent to us.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 4911 - Posted 3 Dec 2006 15:37:46 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The new apps with SSE2 have really damaged the credit. Look at this example.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I completed a work unit using the old SSE app, and it took ages, nearly two days on a heavily overclocked AMD Athlon X2. I claimed 1,086 credits for that time. Quorum was only met when run again with the newer app. It completes in around 1/3rd of the time on a much much slower computer. And I lose out on ~1,000 credits because of that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It\'s not that I\'ve cheated and didn\'t deserve a lot of credit. It\'s that the new app is much quicker.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And that example is just one of many. I\'m increasingly less likely to ever run SZTAKI again now. I have ~5,900 pending credits. I\'ll be interested to know how many I actually get in the end. I\'d had as much as 12,000 pending at one point. 6,000 is no longer pending and I\'ve received 654 out of that. I\'m getting 1/10th of what I claimed due to the new app.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What an utter waste of the weeks of CPU time I spent running SZTAKI for. That\'s not to mention the wasted time spent on work units that error out. Really not happy.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 4912 - Posted 3 Dec 2006 16:53:54 UTC - in response to Message 4911.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Last modified: 3 Dec 2006 18:15:05 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The new apps with SSE2 have really damaged the credit. Look at this example.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I completed a work unit using the old SSE app, and it took ages, nearly two days on a heavily overclocked AMD Athlon X2. I claimed 1,086 credits for that time. Quorum was only met when run again with the newer app. It completes in around 1/3rd of the time on a much much slower computer. And I lose out on ~1,000 credits because of that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It\'s not that I\'ve cheated and didn\'t deserve a lot of credit. It\'s that the new app is much quicker.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And that example is just one of many. I\'m increasingly less likely to ever run SZTAKI again now. I have ~5,900 pending credits. I\'ll be interested to know how many I actually get in the end. I\'d had as much as 12,000 pending at one point. 6,000 is no longer pending and I\'ve received 654 out of that. I\'m getting 1/10th of what I claimed due to the new app.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What an utter waste of the weeks of CPU time I spent running SZTAKI for. That\'s not to mention the wasted time spent on work units that error out. Really not happy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The computer 210871 runs Linux.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The Windows application 2.00 (even with an O/C cpu, according your machine) was slower than the Linux application.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Right, you will see others \"imbalances\", like this Barton :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Cpu : Barton 3200+
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            application version : 2.02
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cpu time : 12,275.36 sec
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Claimed credit : 39.65
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Granted credit : 7.83

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.80GHz
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            application version : 2.01
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cpu time : 3,066.08 sec.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Claimed credit : 7.83
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Granted credit : 7.83

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            application version : 2.01
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cpu time : 3,154.20 sec.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Claimed credit : 7.63
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Granted credit : 7.83

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Like you can see, the Barton, which usually is not a \"bad performer\" was slow because it was running the application 2.02, the only one which supported during some times some Amd cpus.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The 2.02 was slower than the 2.01, so it needed more time and it claimed more credits.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Finally, the quorum was reached and the Barton got less credits.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            You will see differences between Amd - Intel, between Windows - Linux depending the application without forgotting Mac.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            \"Old\" wus are still on the server (no reply or aborted or with error...) and will be sent until they reach the quorum (wus pending). But they will be probably crunched now (under Windows) with the 2.04 (faster). So you can imagine easily what will happen about credits when sometimes, you need more 1 month to get the quorum.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Since it seems easier (?) to crunch the wus with the 2.04, credits will be more balanced soon (i hope).
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 4913 - Posted 3 Dec 2006 19:59:18 UTC - in response to Message 4912.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You will see differences between Amd - Intel, between Windows - Linux depending the application without forgotting Mac.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              FWIW (based on the small proportion of my results that aren’t still pending) my Macs are usually granted between a tenth and a third of what they claim, in a distribution skewed toward the lower end.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 4914 - Posted 3 Dec 2006 20:51:16 UTC - in response to Message 4913.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 3 Dec 2006 20:56:13 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You will see differences between Amd - Intel, between Windows - Linux depending the application without forgotting Mac.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                FWIW (based on the small proportion of my results that aren’t still pending) my Macs are usually granted between a tenth and a third of what they claim, in a distribution skewed toward the lower end.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You get probably the middle of the 3 claimed credit values ?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 4917 - Posted 4 Dec 2006 7:46:25 UTC - in response to Message 4914.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You get probably the middle of the 3 claimed credit values ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, not counting a couple of anomalous results from verson 1.x. The Macs’ claims are almost always the highest of the three, and often by a large margin. I expect more optimization has been done for Intel & AMD chips than for the PowerPC, making the Macs comparatively inefficient.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 4918 - Posted 4 Dec 2006 10:24:30 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=1865 Computed for 162,375.72 sec, granted 0 creadit. I was patient, but that was enough. I quit, az it was not the first wu I got 0 creadit for. I tried to help anyway........
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 4921 - Posted 4 Dec 2006 15:38:23 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Any chance of getting credit for the following?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=6278
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0 credit for success at 77,841.50 sec?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=2432
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0 credit for success at 291,187.77 sec?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And what about the work units that ran for many 100,000 sec
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and then experience client error? My fault or sztaki?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 4940 - Posted 5 Dec 2006 22:19:03 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Last modified: 5 Dec 2006 22:44:45 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I understand the issue with the new application : it\'s faster, so a computer crunching a unit with it will get less credit than a computer which crunched the same unit with an old app.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Probable example here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But there is another issue that I can\'t explain :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1st unit or 2nd unit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        For each of these units, only 2 computers got a \"Success\" outcome, but the granted credit is 0.00 and there were \"errors : Too many total results\".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What about the minimum quorum of 3 ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Can someone explain ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        EDIT : Think I got it : max # of total results is set to 8, and in each case there were 9 results sent ... too bad for me !
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 4988 - Posted 9 Dec 2006 6:22:45 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 9 Dec 2006 6:25:08 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hey Adam,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Here\'s another one with interesting behavior:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/workunit.php?wuid=1593

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          When I started running it, I saw that four of the results had succeded, two with low credit (Intels) and two with much more credit (AMDs). Being that I was running an AMD I let it run through for the long haul, and after ~4 days it also succeded (splitting the difference between the two AMD results). The strange thing is this; even though it shows as pending when I look at my results page, it DOESN\'T show up on my pending credit page, nor has credit been granted for it. Is the processing of completed results running behind, or is there a bug somewhere that is causing this behavior?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks, SG257
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 5057 - Posted 13 Dec 2006 6:11:27 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Update to previous post. Credit was granted after 6th succesful processing of WU. Credit was interesting but I\'m at a loss for how it\'s calculated. But at least I got it. It NEVER showed as Pending credit while I was waiting however...easy come, easy go.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 5416 - Posted 8 Jan 2007 9:34:45 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Continued here: http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/forum_thread.php?id=526
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If you like BOINC, you may also find CaretCursor to be appealing.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 5483 - Posted 17 Jan 2007 7:46:48 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 17 Jan 2007 7:53:59 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the following wus have not got credit even with 5-6 successful results. In the first wu one computer crunched for 1,211,453.65 seconds equivalent to 14 days!!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                first wu


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                second wu.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 5486 - Posted 17 Jan 2007 19:04:03 UTC - in response to Message 5483.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the following wus have not got credit even with 5-6 successful results. In the first wu one computer crunched for 1,211,453.65 seconds equivalent to 14 days!!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Both your links are the same—and you broke the URL by adding a slash to the end. Here’s a link that should work better.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Anyway, observe that those results have a validation state of “Checked, but no consensus yet”. That means that the validator considered them insufficiently similar to each other, so further results are needed for comparison.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I still haven’t seen anyone who can beat my time of 2,455,983.43 seconds (682 CPU-hours or 28.4 CPU-days), achieved by a Mac G4/400 on the WU named 1a9d6387-6dd8-4e3d-a31c-ae75a2daaf6d_b668f738-e6d2-41e4-a216-374234919059_1472, which has been pending for over a month now.
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